A Weblog of Centrist Voices in American Politics


Centerfield is the blog of the Centrist Coalition. Send story ideas to cf at centristcoalition . com

Explore the Centrist Blogosphere, an aggregator which lists the latest posts by Centrist bloggers

These bloggers are part of the Centrist Coalition:
Ambivablog
Another Opinion
Austin Centrist
Charging RINO
Donklephant
Maverick Views
The Moderate Voice
Moderate Voters
Stubborn Facts

Independent Nation

Center Links:

<< ? The VCWC # >>

Independent Nation

Radical Middle

Resources:

 

July 28, 2008

Iraq v Afghanistan Retrospective: We Didn't Have The Troops For Iraq

Rafique at Stubborn Facts had a pointer to an-as-usual thoughtful Hitchens article. But reading the article made me realize something: we only thought we could do both Afghanistan AND Iraq because both plans were short in a fundamental way. Both plans ignored thousands of years of warfare history and got lazy and just did the kinetic bits instead of considering the postwar problems and responsibilities that, gee, life always seems to bring after war. The reality was that we only had enough troops to give internal security in Afghanistan. That's because the terrain's against us.

Like far too many of his fellow reporters, Hitchens hasn't understood the planning failures in Afghanistan and Iraq. As a result, he and they have written mostly clueless articles about problems in Iraq and the Surge. He thinks there's some special sauce only developed in Iraq, when COIN is a set of general principles with Iraq just a special case, and most of Petraeus' work in Iraq in particular is really just providing internal security and making life hard for gangs and extremists.

Notice, I do think we sent enough troops to occupy Iraq, given a good commander able to exercise the offensive like Petraeus. But, given that Afghanistan had to be given higher priority in any reasonable strategic look, the high numbers ACTUALLY needed for it should have kept us out of Iraq.

Posted by Jon Kay at July 28, 2008 02:12 AM
Comments

Occasionally, it becomes necessary to change the way that the military does things. The most common approach is to have a military disaster first. This has the "advantage" of makimg it obvious what needs to be changed. (Although it doesn't necessarily help in figuring out what to do instead. Unless your opponent has just demonstrated it on you.)

If, however, you are trying to get ahead of the curve, the big challenge is to figure out which pieces of military history to now ignore. In this case, Rumsfeld et al. messed up the challenge.

I suspect that the safest way to approach that challenge is to have reasons, beyond "it's old fashioned", why a particular practice is no longer relevant/necessary. And, from what little I could see from a distance, they did not.

Posted by: wj at July 29, 2008 09:47 AM

the big challenge is to figure out which pieces of military history to now ignore

Like the bloody military history of the Khyber area and the FATA/NWFP, the failure of almost everyone to do well there militarily against the Pashtun and others for centuries, the fact that much/most of it lies in Pakistan, and the inadvisability of pouring troops into it without an explicit go-ahead from the nuclear-armed Pakistanis? And the unlikelihood of getting that?

The problem with Afghanistan is that most of the problem is not really in Afghanistan. It just comes over there to play.

Posted by: Tully at July 29, 2008 04:36 PM

The problem with Afghanistan is that most of the problem is not really in Afghanistan. It just comes over there to play.

Or supports the Afghan economy by sending money over there to pay for its imported toys. (As in drugs.)

Posted by: wj at July 29, 2008 06:33 PM

All so true. The only thing that gives us any kind of chance atall is that most of the people are on our side. Unlike the British Imperial or Soviet experiences. And Pakistan being on our side. So far. It'd be easier to keep it up if we could do some deal like with Turkey, where they were allowed to sell much of their product to drugmakers.

Posted by: Jon Kay at July 30, 2008 01:45 AM

Want a big surprise of a data item? Much of that poppy crop IS sold legitimately to Big Pharma companies. Where do you think our legit codeine and morphine and such comes from? Yeah.

Can't just stamp out the crops entirely because it really is a legitimate crop, and the Afghan economy really needs the revenue. Bit of a quandary, that.

Pakistan may be "on our side" theoretically, but in practice it's a shaky government with a lot of warring internal factions, one that does NOT control all of its own territory, and there's only so much they can do without risking internal meltdowns and civil war.

Posted by: Tully at July 31, 2008 01:38 PM

I agree with Jon (group gasp). The generals were saying those high numbers for a reason - they knew what it would take, and W ignored it.

HOWEVER, so did Congress. They knew the number of troops. They had the same info W had, or at least most of it. So, if our focus should have been Afghanistan all along, and Hussein was a threat but we did not have the time or resources, why did Congress (both Dem and Rep) give him the go-ahead?

Posted by: Rachel at July 31, 2008 03:29 PM
(Comments on this entry may be closed after 7 days to prevent spam)




Do you choose the politicians, or do they choose you? Find out how to put the people back in charge.

Declare Your Independence - Unity08.com

Archives


Recent Entries

August 2010
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31        


Powered by
Movable Type 2.661