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May 02, 2008

Friday open thread

What's up?

Posted by Todd Pearson at May 2, 2008 02:37 PM
Comments

I really want to see some polling numbers on people's reaction to the gas tax proposal this week. I know what the sort of people who read this blog will think. But what about the voters in general?

Do they want someone who will tell them that everything can be magically made better? Or do they appreciate someone who will tell them about reality, however unattractive that reality is? Bets?

Posted by: wj at May 2, 2008 06:49 PM

We went to Maria's TacoXPress and Half Price Books today. Right now, the Profesora's trying to put the kid to sleep, but it's going really slowly tonight.

Posted by: Jon Kay at May 2, 2008 10:27 PM

Last week, the chief of the extremist al-Shabab militia in Somalia was killed by a Tomahawk missile strike. Along with a dozen or more other people.

Now US law forbids us from using assassins to kill individuals. But, it appears, there is no bar to something like this, which accomplishes the same end, but with a lot more other people being killed as well. (Ignore, for the sake so discussion, whether some or all of the others might have been members of the same terrorist group.)

Can somebody explain to me the logic behind forbidding assassinations, but allowing missile strikes? Please use small words.

P.S. Note that I'm not asking whether we are justified in doing or not doing either one. Just for the reasoning behind allowing one and forbidding the other.

Posted by: wj at May 3, 2008 10:21 AM

Now US law forbids us from using assassins to kill individuals.

Kind of--define "assassin." Executive Order 11905 prohibits "political assassination" and EO 12333 prohibits our intelligence agencies from using "assassination." Neither apply to the legitimate activities of the military in time of war. Nothing there that would stop us in wartime from shooting down Yamamoto's plane, or from targeting Saddam's command center--with him in it--with an airstrike. Legitimate targets for military action.

I guess the short answer is that we're willing to allow our overt military to do things that we REALLY don't want covert intelligence agencies doing for reasons of sound general principle. In history the best reason for "civilized" nations to not engage in covert assassination was the hope that the other guys would also follow that principle.

The military isn't really equipped for covert assassination. They ARE equipped for taking out targets with stand-off weapons or unit strikes.

Posted by: Tully at May 3, 2008 12:19 PM

OK, I can see why we don't want covert intelligence agencies engaging in assassinations. And I can see that the military isn't currently equipped to do them.

But there is no obvious reason why, for example, someone trained as a sniper could not, with some additional training perhaps, execute one. With the same restrictions concerning "time of war" and "legitimate military targets". I guess what I'm saying is, how is it better to use a missile and take out a whole building than a bullet and at least have a chance of only taking out the perosn you were targetting?

Posted by: wj at May 3, 2008 04:00 PM

But there is no obvious reason why, for example, someone trained as a sniper could not, with some additional training perhaps, execute one. With the same restrictions concerning "time of war" and "legitimate military targets".

I know of no legal reason that couldn't occur in the proper conditions (but hey, I'm not a lawyer). I can however think of many practical ones. Up towards the top of that list is the low survivability factor of such missions. We do not train up our best to throw them away. I have trouble conceiving the circumstances where a single person would be sent in rather than a team, and a team will use stand-off capabilities that both improve kill chances and the odds of getting away intact. Yes, we use snipers, but not on such operator-vulnerable highly targeted missions. They're not disposable.

I guess the moral is that you shouldn't hang out with people who REALLY piss off our military, because the splatter damage when they find such people is nasty. It's downright hazardous to your health. Come to think of it, that's a feature of the system...and at last part of the answer to your question.

Posted by: Tully at May 3, 2008 05:06 PM

Here's an interesting, Victorian-era football theory from my current book, Mornings On Horseback, by David McCoullough, about Young TR. Apparently, the President of Harvard, when TR was there, felt:

He approved of football, but had the odd idea that the ball carrier ought to do the manly thing and hit the most resistant part of the enemy's line, not look for holes.

!!

Now I'm wondering how this football theory can be reintroduced at Oklahoma and Aggieland....


In Afghanistan and Iraq, we haven't been doing that kind of thing unless we had good reason to believe that the entire target party was bad guys. So it's a good guess we thought the rest were more al-Shahabis (I hope!).

Posted by: Jon Kay at May 3, 2008 10:56 PM

Now I'm wondering how this football theory can be reintroduced at Oklahoma and Aggieland....

Just because the Longhorns took it up.... ;-)

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