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A Weblog of Centrist Voices in American Politics |
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November 05, 2007Consciousness, Meat: All Good, and, And Future AI EthicsThis post is about realities and ethics of various intelligence levels. I've been meaning to write something like it a long time, but was reminded by reading Pollan's excellent The Omnivore's Dilemma, which includes bits about consciousness and ethics of eating. Self-Consciousness It's pretty obvious to me that at least some animals are both conscious and self-conscious. I have two cats. If you've ever known any cats well, you'll understand that they are utterly self-centered. To a cat, the world exists to serve her. I don't see how you can have self-centeredness without both self-consciousness and consciousness, by definition. I also grant self-consciousness to any computer program that has a robust notion of self, which many AIs designed for conversation do. There's a famous, early AI program, Eliza, that emulates a psychotherapist. I don't see it as self-conscious, because its manipulations were purely grammatical. But, of course, where to draw the line will depend on taste. Eating Ethics Since reading a book that included eating ethics reminded me to write this post, I'll also go into why I think it's morally OK for us to eat Bevo The Steer. I do believe that our higher intelligence puts us into a different ethical category than animals that makes us more worthy of maintenance than the animals. Since at least one human on this earth can't thrive without meat (me) (yes, really and truly), I think it's ethical for us to eat meat. Pollan wrote that he found convincing the vegetarianist advocate argument that we might as well eat the our retarded and disabled as eat animals. I find the argument unconvincing - even our retarded and disabled are far, far smarter than cows, horses, and chickens. The biggest reason, of course, is that the retarded and disabled have real hopes of cures. We do, as I see it, owe respect to animals not to mistreat them. And, I hope we sometime have the technology to grow meat without brains. At that point, I will see eating the original stuff as unethical. Future, Smart AI Ethics When I was a kid, I used to see Isaac Asimov's books about intelligent robots as reasonable. These robots were restrained by limits in their basic programming to obey humans and not threaten them. Now I see that as slavery. That brings up the question of, how do you decide who should have human rights. If somebody's as smart in a general-purpose way as a human, why shouldn't he get human rights? To me, it's brains rather than looks that are the key to humanity. After all, you find at least SOME blogposts (maybe not this one...) interesting strictly because what they say seems smart to you, or you wouldn't be here. If I had to interest readers on my looks, our ratings would plummet even farther. So, why should we care about AI rights? Because most computer scientists think we're likely to eventually have created artificial intelligences at least at some point in the future, even if possibly remote. I think it's likely to be in the first half of this century. So, what should we do when we get there? Posted by Jon Kay at November 5, 2007 12:43 AMComments
Start with consciousness and ethics: If someone (or something) is both conscious and self-conscious, it seems to me that some kind of ethics will apply as well. (Quite possibly not the same ethical standards, but some kind of ethics.) Alternatively, suppose ethics cannot be applied for some reason -- not that someone is immoral, mind, but that ethics are not appropriate to some kinds of beings. Then I wonder if conscious really is effectively present. So, ethics and eating: It seems obvious that vegitarianism is not a rational ethical requirement for carnivores. In which case, how appropriate is it for omnivores? And if so, is there a basis on which it properly could be applied to some kinds of omnivores, but not others? Nothing leaps to mind there, but perhaps someone else has a bright idea (and logic to back it up). Finally, AIs and human rights: As with ethics, rights would seem to vary with kind. I cannot see the sense of trying to blanket apply human rights to animals, for example. So while there may come to be AI rights, they seem unlikely to be identical to human rights either. And considering how far we still seem to be from agreement on just what human rights actually entail in specific, I doubt that concensus on what AI rights are will arrive any time soon. Posted by: wj at November 5, 2007 12:50 PM"Since at least one human on this earth can't thrive without meat (me) (yes, really and truly), I think it's ethical for us to eat meat." You really have to explain the "(yes, really and truly)", because I don't see how that's possibly true. And since it's not, really, then I suppose you are admitting you don't think it's ethical to eat meat, except that you can't imagine not eating it. I'm actually the same way. I don't really think eating meat is ethical, but I love steak. Posted by: ME at November 5, 2007 04:05 PMYou really have to explain the "(yes, really and truly)", because I don't see how that's possibly true. I have, in fact, tried to go vegetarian, and failed. Twice, in fact. The second time I had the help of a woman with yummy tofu recipes, a key enough difference that I thought it worth trying again. When I tried, both times I felt weak and lacking energy and stupid and missing something. In terms of protein replacement, I've tried tofu, nuts, cheese, and various energy drinks and powders. And I was eating a daily multivitamin, so I don't think the theory of missing Vitamin D that you can find on the net is what was happening. I only need a modest amount/day unless I exercise alot or am injured (both are true today). Probably not every human's in the same boat as me, but as I see it, it really is ethical for me and other humans in the same boat to eat meat. So, in a certain sense, I'm not as omnivorous as some omnivores - most meals I can choose freely, but not always. |
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