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August 03, 2007

Open Thread: More On Bottle Caps And Whatever Else You Wanna Discuss

Posted by Jon Kay at August 3, 2007 05:46 PM
Comments

Interesting breakthrough on the embryonic stem cell front.

While I first praised Cicelia for her efforts in Tripoli, I am astonished what actually may have taken place. Beside a huge amount of money paid, there was a promise for nuclear facilities a la French firms.

Here

Then comes a military deal (remember the Brits and the US turned Gadaffi) including numerous weapons to be used against who? Seriously, who will be targeted with anti-tank weapons? I smell something very fishy.

I'm not sure what pressure we're putting on Saudis after huge arm deal predictions. With Saudi human bombers going to Iraq and this, I wonder what what our policy really is.

It's time for a day ending brewsky....cheers

Posted by: Maxtrue at August 3, 2007 06:29 PM

Okay, well.....just when you think pot can make you crazy there's this.

And one more from the I-told-you-so Department.

Posted by: Maxtrue at August 4, 2007 01:51 AM

The prize for sheer nerve for the past week goes to John Dingell (D-MI). To propose a carbon tax (the approach actually most likely to effectively address global warming), after fighting tooth and nail to keep any increase in automobile gas mileage requirements -- awesome!

Too bad the rest of the House won't try to move forward on it. That would give us the amusing sight of a Congressman fighting frantically to oppose a bill that he submitted in the first place.

Posted by: wj at August 4, 2007 09:56 AM

A Dingell berry? Good observation.

Posted by: Maxtrue at August 4, 2007 10:23 AM

There was a rattling in our garbage disposal most of the week. I looked twice to figure out what was happening, to no avail. In the end, of course, the Profesora found it on her first try.

It was last weekend's bottle cap, that showed up in a lamb stew. THAT'S the bottle cap I meant.

I was hoping to get this comment out alot faster, but ended up being too tired 'til now...kid grtumbe..kid.... Sigh.


Oh, and, I read Gordon Brown's message to the US that was broadly published in US papers last week. It looked familiar to me.... I'm convinced he took one of Churchill's and rewrote it for modern conditions. Well, you know what they say, always steal from the best.

Posted by: Jon Kay at August 4, 2007 06:57 PM

A thread that wouldn't post up on SF. I thought some here would find it interesting in light of recent Obama remarks the the Kos convention.

Welcome to SOF
(HT Defensetech.com). No wonder Democrats would love to have more of them......who wouldn't?


In all fairness to Barak, the spring from which hitting Pakistan sprung is here . Perhaps the Kennedy association that Sullivan finds is somewhere there in the reasoning Chomsky's crowd so despises. I find a bit of thinking that makes sense while ignoring his present political strategy. Three personas so far appear I that I can see; Obama the Defender of National Self-Interest (a la Kennedy), Obama the Social Transformer, and Obama the Protector of Common Humanity (human rights, illegals etc.). This does explain some of the confusion.

And then of course, there is also Obama the politician. We will see what Saturday brings forth upon the Kosian stage.

UPDATE Well, as I predicted, Obama's base was alarmed by his Pakistan remarks. So what does the Rookie QB do? He throws another Hail Mary and takes nukes off the table in ANY situation involving terrorists. Perhaps he read my questions about OBL in a deep cave...LOL.

Hillary calmly responded (knowing that the Dems lean on the Don Corleone retailation option) and says it's not a good idea for a President to make such blanket remarks. As I said, he got nailed in a debate months ago and is still bouncing around trying to recover. Not sure this is smart recovery. I guess we all wait for the Kos event and see if Obama keeps this seemingly rookie behavior going. Now Biden and others are taking shots at Obama. Barak the politician has still a big part of the learning curve to get through and Hillary has not brought all guns on Obama. Why? Let others do it (I still suspect she wants Obama as VP).

Huffington which does not like Hillary ran a few pro-Barak articles this morning. They are trying hard to compensate for Obama mistakes. One Op-Ed story is here (remember the Dems plan for retaliation against WMC or WMD attacks here. Where did nuke Tehran find expression?) and for Simon, Kos is calling Newt a "stealth Liberal". If you want a good laugh check it out.

UPDATE #2

A series of links on the general subject (not to beat a dead horse)

Unsavory? Well, Obama didn't say he would bomb Pakistan back to the Stone Age. And I don't buy we're not beginning to things in secret.

During a telephone call to President Pervez Musharraf, U.S. President George W. Bush said this kind of talk was "unsavory," and assured the Pakistani leader Washington respected its ally's sovereignty, the Pakistani Foreign Ministry said on Friday.

An opportunity lost?

Reactions in Pakistan

North African arms race and potential future problems (somewhat ommitted from Obama's FA article)

Actions that could invoke the Don Corleone Rule

CQ view of Obama's recent remarks

UPDATE Hillary goes into the Badger's den. WAPO on KOS

NYT

I guess Obama and Hillary didn't want to discuss foreign policy. Kos feels DLC was over looked because Lefty bloggers have more voting clout. My respect for Biden has risen (a no show) and Obama thinks corporations don't represent Americans....LOL. Remember, Hillary goes into the den where Obama is Chicago's favorite son and Edwards is Kos' darling. I knew Hillary appreciated the boos and I give her credit for not losing her cool. What a panderfest.........

Posted by: Maxtrue at August 5, 2007 12:28 PM

Thanks for the pointer to Obama's article. It's probably lost him my vote. He's gotta pay attention to what's going on on the ground, not in the media's minds.

we cannot impose a military solution on a civil war between Sunni and Shiite factions.

Why not, since only minorities want civil war? Most violence is Shi'a-on-Shi'a, militias/gangs enforcing their ways. This is mostly about Rumsfeld's disinterest in even thinking about occupation, not about Iraqi problems.

This reminds me of Kennedy's campaign, interestingly. The Western press took seriously Soviet claims of having 100x as many missiles as they really did. Why not? It sold papers. Kennedy responded to that perception - he talked about how Ike had allowed a vast Missile Gap to open, when in fact the US nuclear arsenal was far bigger and better than the Soviets'.

IMHO, Obama needs an Economist subscription and to have a staffer read and summarize Iraqi and other subject blogs.

Posted by: Jon Kay at August 6, 2007 01:52 AM

I don't know Jon. I read Obama's Foreign Affairs article. If we could go back before Iraq, it wouldn't be bad thinking for the most part. I still think Obama would have had to make tougher choices as Saddam rearmed. And what if Libya didn't blink and a real mess with Pakistan and India escalated? I read some arm chairing in his words and a lot of nice platitudes pushed as a candidate..

Speaking of arm chairing, how bout this? It was spawned from a prior fight over "Why does the military hate the Left?" thread further down the front page. SF had similar threads on Kos and Obama. The weirdest thing is if you take Obama's speeches in 2004 and recently to AIPAC, then combine them with his comments on Pakistan and in Foreign Affairs, you come up with a policy more hawkishly objectionable to Kos and Huffington, than Hillary's comments. It’s about the War and anti-Bush above all, like some friggin religion and under it an unspoken opposition to the Clinton machine. JFK imitations by Bull excluded the Kos-Znet-Huffington crowd. And how wasn't Kos a stage given Obama's remarks just before attending? What dissension did he make playing the enlightened warrior? Is it any wonder that this group is anti-Bubba and thereby anti-Hillary given the Left's treatment under Bull's watch? Many "progressives" in the middle are oblivious to this change in Political Climate, and I'm not taking CO2.. They are more distracted by Cheney. They laugh that the equation is you’re either with em or a neocon. I think Independents see the base as stronger now on the Left, but what’s the alternative? Rudy or Mitt? Fred? McCain resurrected?

Where do you place yourself in the political spectrum?

I mean, as a moderate liberal myself, strong on equality, defense and free market technology, why do Tully and Pat make more sense most of the time than many Liberals I know? I watch “You Don’t Know Dick About Dick” on the Daily Show, but why isn’t it “You Don’t Know Dick About Ahamadinejad”? I checked my liberal criteria and Iraq policy, pre-emption, bigger government and geopolitical realism are about my biggest differences with typical Liberals. The bulk of sentiment remains the same. I cannot support social conservatism, unbridled capitalism, or sustained abject unilateralism. Republican is therefore out. So by clicking this internet route, what have I learned about my political home? That there is none?

Like a Rollin Stone….

Anyway, I just banked another Bass bottle cap in the sink. Be careful of yours. Have a good one…..

Posted by: Maxtrue at August 6, 2007 11:27 PM

P.S. This is what I mean. Mia Farrow offers herself as Sudan hostage. Funny, that she offers before Danny Glover or Al Sharpton. That's the point, Sean Penn. Still, Kudos to Mia.

Posted by: Maxtrue at August 6, 2007 11:41 PM

why do Tully and Pat make more sense most of the time than many Liberals I know?

But...but...I'm a liberal! Just not in the modern usage.

Let's check--pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-freedom, anti-state-religionism...I'm more of a Jeffersonian "liberaltarian."

Problem being that modern usage requires you to either be all one True Believer camp stereotype extreme or another, and I'm not a stereotype. Most of us aren't. Most of us may be swayed by the rhetoric one way or another, but if given a real look at all the facts involved find the dogmatic simplistic BS to be, well, dogmatic simplistic BS.

Both parties work real hard at distracting us from taking that real look, and far too few make the effort.

Posted by: Tully at August 7, 2007 12:13 AM

Also--Jon, I'll be in your general neck of the woods this week, and may give you a holler if I can shake loose for a few hours for a brewski. I'd love to, but I'm not totally in control of my time, so no promises (or is that threats?). But thought I'd mention it. If a stranger calls....

Hope all is well with you and yours and that you and the Profesora are getting something remotely resembling adequate sleep at this point. Been there, done that (twice), including much more than the usual male-parent share of dark-hour feedings and comfortings and such.

Posted by: Tully at August 7, 2007 12:24 AM

open source wins

Posted by: Maxtrue at August 11, 2007 08:28 AM

Hate to break up the bash-Dem fest, but I'd take any of the above before I'd vote for W, who didn't even know who was in charge of Pakistan, let alone what American foreign policy toward Pakistan should be. That didn't seem to stop W from running the free world.#

But to show we're still friends, Max, I'll give you this moldy oldy horror story from Iran...

#And look how splendidly that turned out.

Posted by: Blue Jean at August 11, 2007 11:15 PM

%&($#@ Links!

Try this.

Posted by: Blue Jean at August 11, 2007 11:17 PM
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