Centerfield

Japan is not a one party democracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Japan

It is parliamentary system with several parties, but the LDP has pretty much ruled consistently (but for a few years) since independence, however that is not legally candidate, people have a choice.

The LDP also has several sub-factions which are common parliamentary systems, something we are not used to here.

"racism, sexism, rights vs the police, and the temporary economic boost that made so big in the last century, and is now giving long-term malaise."

What the hell is he talking about? Japan is 98% Japanese and 99% Asian.

They don't have a racism problem because there are no real minorities.

Sexism? There are laws against sexism, however what we think of as sexist from an American point of view Japanese people do not find sexist. Japanese women are not oppressed in the least. It is not the Middle East or something.

Rights vs the police...once again a cultural difference. Most Japanese would never put personal rights above group harmony, that is contrary to Confucianism which defines many things in Japanese society historically.

Once again this person is looking at Japan from a chauvinist American point of view and passing judgment on something she doesn't understand because it is not her culture. Sounds like something someone white would do.

I'm AAfrican American, actually lived there and my wife is from there.

Posted by: Dragon Horse at July 8, 2007 04:14 PM

LMAO. Isn't that sweet, Jon? You must be a white chauvinist American to say such things. After all, only white people can really be racist and sexist. Everyone else is just celebrating their indigenous cultures.

Posted by: Tully at July 8, 2007 05:04 PM

Don't be a Chinese person in Japan and think that there is no RACISM in the country. You will have a rude awakening due to you.

Japan racism 'deep and profound'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4671687.stm

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40140000/gif/_40140350_japan_foreigners_gra203.gif

Posted by: Constructive Feedback at July 8, 2007 08:38 PM

CF:

Maybe if the Chinese did not have such a high crime rate in Japan they would not be treated badly. Japan is relatively homogeneous. If a foreign group that is distinctive comes in and does not assimilate and on top of that, has a high criminality rate what do you expect.

http://www.jref.com/society/foreign_crime_in_japan.shtml

Oh on top of other things like talking extremely loud in public, spitting and throwing trash everywhere (similar behavior that you can see in Hong Kong or Shanghai, but never in Tokyo before Chinese came). The Chinese also have their own superiority issues, where they will tell everyone, there culture is 5,000 years old and Japanese came from China (therefore Chinese are superior, something that is not really true anyway).

As far as other groups that are discriminated against:

The only real ethnic minorities in Japan that have issues are Koreans born in Japan (zainichi). Their are about 1 million of them out of 125 million people in the country.

I met a few.

In Asia they look at race different. Japanese consider the Koreans (well most Japanese anyway) racially separate from Japanese although in reality even most Japanese can not tell a Korean from a Japanese person on the street 9/10. Sometimes people look stereotypically Korean and you can spot them, but usually no.

The issue with them is complicated.

Japan controlled Korea for 50 years and lost control after WWII. Some Koreans came voluntarily to work most were brought as slaves. After the war most went back to Korea, but some chose to stay

They are not citizens, but permanent residents. Some hold N.Korean passports some S.Korean (they had a choice after the Korean War which they wanted).

Japan also gave them a choice to become citizens, but under Japanese law a citizen must chose a Japanese name.

Many Koreans refused, and they send their kids to separate private Korean schools (which are nearly identical to those in S.Korea) however, the Zainichi I met could not speak Korean fluently and were no different from other Japanese there age. In Korea they are treated as traitors so most don't want to move there.

In Japan they are discriminated because, mainly, Koreans are looked down upon as racially inferior (violent, liers, thieves, drunks) but the biggest issue is they won't assimilate, this really makes Japanese people angry. They have a few saying that they share with the Chinese, one is "The tallest blade of grass gets cut" they believe in societal harmony and not converting to the "norm" is almost sinful

There are also Ainu and people from Okinawa (Rykuyans) and Eta.

The long and short is this:

Ainu are aboriginal Japanese who are indeed physical distinct. They look like light skin aborigine. Not joking. They are like Native Americans. The Japanese absorbed some and killed most. Today most live on reservations on the Northern most island, Hokkaido, they are discriminated against but there are so few (like 10,000 maybe) it is not a major issue.

Okinawans are Japanese but due to their location and history they have heavily mixed with various peoples (Chinese/Malay types) and they look different and their dialect of Japanese is unintelligable to outsiders. They are few in number, maybe a 1 million. They were discriminated against a lot as being "unpure" but most people of my wife's generations (mid thirties and younger) don't care anymore, some older people do see them as inferior.

When I met my grandmother-in-law she did not hide the fact she was not happy I was a black American, and she wanted pure Japanese grandchildren, however she was civil an relatively nice. She did make the comment, Well, at least he is not Korea. For them a black American was more acceptable than a Korean, and many Japanese would feel like that. haha

Eta are descendants from low class Japanese who had jobs that were unpure (like slaughtering animals or dealing with the dead). They look no different and act no different from other Japanese. There names are not distinct. Typically they are discriminated against in rural areas, in the cities no one knows who they are or cares much.

SO yes, like every nations, Japanese has discrimination, prejudice, but there is not a Japanese Klan or skinheads. There are not right wing hate groups. People don't sit around and talk about how inferior Koreans are in public, etc.

Japanese, like with most things, keep their negative feelings to themselves for the most part. You can't compare what goes on there to how blacks were treated in South Africa or here.

In fact most Zainichi in Japan are not poor. Despite discrimination against them many of them are quite wealthy due to independent business. Many are also mafia (Yakuza). From what I understand they do have a high rate of alcoholism though.

The other groups are not really discriminated against or exist in isolated locations where it is not an issue.

My wife has negative opinions of Koreans but the other groups she doesn't care about. She says they are all Japanese.

Posted by: Dragon Horse at July 8, 2007 09:16 PM

Tully:

It is not racist or sexist it is "ignorant" in the classic sense. Which is common for Americans in dealing with other nations, especially whites who tend to be Eurocentric in outlook and rarely know anything about nonEuropean based nations.

I have lived in East Asia (Tokyo and Shanghai) and speak low level Japanese and intermediate Mandarin.

Sorry, but the introductory post was incorrect and fairly offensive.

Posted by: Dragon Horse at July 8, 2007 09:19 PM

Also the income inequality in Japan is the lowest in the developed world according to the UN's calculation of the gini coefficient:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

The crime rate is nearly the lowest in every measure of violent crime:

http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/rwinslow/asia_pacific/japan.html

Despite what the author called a "malaise" it is still the second wealthiest nation in the world after the US and ahead of Germany.

According to the CIA factbook

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ja.html#Econ

Japan has a 4% unemployment rate far lower than the Western EU average (8%), lower than America, lower than Canada.

No significant population living in poverty (hence the relatively small income inequality)..believe it or not there are no ghettos in Tokyo.

GDP growth was 2.2% (EU was 3% wow so large) last year.

I know...maybe Japanese should change. They should open up immigration to various radicalized poor Muslim countries and accept multi-culti ideas debasing their native culture and holding all other cultures in the world as equally valid. Then they can have Muslims protesting in front of the Imperial Palace in Tokyo burning Japanese flags telling them to convert to Islam or die and threatening terrorist attacks.

Sure the crime rate will increase and maybe they should restructure their economy so they have a high unemployment rate and a big social welfare system they can't pay for. Maybe they would better better off if all women worked and didn't stay home with the kids and had all these latchkey kids who have high STD rates and out of wedlock birth like the good old U.S.

I think not...they are doing fine. They don't want to be like America. They just want to buy some of our crap they don't want our culture, and I have to say after living there...if I was them, I wouldn't either.

Contrary to popular opinion Japan is not a stagnant husk of a nation filled with racist, sexists, xenophobes, etc. Just because they are not European in culture does not mean anything is wrong with them.

Posted by: Dragon Horse at July 8, 2007 09:35 PM

Once again this person is . . . passing judgment on something she doesn't understand because it is not her culture. Sounds like something someone white would do.

Absolutely! Just like somebody Latino, Japanese, or any other ethnicity would do. Or, not too different from how somebody claiming to be African American just made a judgement on me without knowing anything about me, including my ethnicity.

The LDP also has several sub-factions which are common parliamentary systems, something we are not used to here.

People DO have choice - but less. It's kind of like the South during one-party rule, which DID, I'd say, show more corruption than the rest of the nation. Except it's worse because a smoke-filled chooses the PM rather more than in other Parliamentary democracies. And is there just one LDP party list (I'm curious)? If so, that would dilute the Diet by a further third.

Japan is 98% Japanese and 99% Asian.

Well, it certainly may *look* that way. My wife, who's been researching this professionally, said that immigrating to Japan *from most countries* is alot easier with Japanese ancestry (don't think that barrier applies to the US - they don't see us as inferior because we beat 'em a couple of times).

In Japan they are discriminated because, mainly, Koreans are looked down upon as racially inferior (violent, liers, thieves, drunks) but the biggest issue is they won't assimilate, this really makes Japanese people angry.

Well, one reason they haven't assimilated is because they've lacked choice.

"The tallest blade of grass gets cut" they believe in societal harmony and not converting to the "norm" is almost sinful

You know, many Southerners had a remarkably similar view when defending, first slavery, and then Jim Crow. They talked about harmony and the peculiarities of their culture.

there is not a Japanese Klan or skinheads. There are not right wing hate groups.

Oh, yes, there are.

People don't sit around and talk about how inferior Koreans are in public, etc.

Actually, they do. And they treat them badly other ways, too.

Japanese women are not oppressed in the least.

No, not in the least. It's just that maybe 0.5% of women hold interesting, beyond-"Office-Lady" (secretarial) jobs. And that most Japanese men don't think of women as potentially having brains. A female friend who had an internship at a research lab said she felt like a Martian because (well, OK, one reason was she was the only redhead in the building). But she was also the only non-secretarial woman there. Most men she talked to found the idea of women contributing intellectually unusual.

A male friend who visited reported being told that anti-sexism was an American fad.

Posted by: Jon Kay at July 9, 2007 02:30 AM

Well, so far the economic bets have worked out, but if Japan has to keep paying the piper (Japan is Graph 4) with low relative economic growth, Japanese incomes will come to lag the rest of the world.

The crime rate is nearly the lowest in every measure of violent crime:

Crime does tend to be lower when you don't care so much about details like if you've jailed somebody innocent.

Maybe they would better better off if all women worked and didn't stay home with the kids and had all these latchkey kids who have high STD rates and out of wedlock birth like the good old U.S.

If the women could have the choice in a binding vote, how do you think they would vote on the issue?

Posted by: Jon Kay at July 9, 2007 02:53 AM

Jon:

Sorry if I came off very aggressive, but I took offense to that post.

Lets look at what you wrote:

1) As far as the List in the Diet, I honestly don't know, but the point is Japan is not a one-party state due to state coercion as in Singapore. They have a choice and opposition reguarly criticizes the majority in the press harshly.

2) There are people in Japan, from Brazil, who have Japanese ancestry who are "mixed race" and some Japanese who came from China (who are culturally Chinese but have Japanese ancestry from way back in WWII) however these are very small populations, they number in the 10's of thousands, not even the hundreds of thousands.

2) Japan is a sovereign nation, they have the right to have 0 immigration or to only let people below 6 foot immigrate if that is what they want. Their is no international law that states Japan must open their doors to mass immigration. They do have to (or should) allow refugees in short term, but there is nothing that says they have to offer them citizenship or keep them permanently. Japan is a democratic country, it is up to them to determine what is best for their nation, not anyone else.

3)Sure there is a right wing in Japan, when I lived in Tokyo they would be outside of Shinjuku and Tokyo station (eki) blasting their nonsense about foreign crime from large vans...and handing out fliers.

Guess what? Most Japanese just walk by as if they didn't hear or see a thing (as is common).

Despite nationalist groups there are no hate groups that go around lynching or attacking foreigns in organized ways. I have never once heard of a foreign being attacked for being with a Japanese boyfriend/girlfriend physically or verbally. I have never heard of a foreign being attacked unprovoked by a Japanese person at all. I did hear some urban legend of people disappearing due to disrespecting the mafia (yakuza) but I have no evidence of this.

There is crime in Japan, and I'm sure you can find some evidence of some hate crime in Japan, but compared to GErmany, UK, America, etc. Not even close on a per capita basis. You would be very hard pressed to find 2-3 a year. That is not true in America.

4) I have already said thier is discrimination against Koreans, but do you want to compare that against discrimination and racist talk about blacks/Hispanics in the US. Jews and Muslims in Europe?

Koreans live much better in Japan than Muslims do in France, or blacks and Hispanics do on average in America.

The reality is that their is discrimination, there is denial of WWII crimes. This is common knowledge, but what also is common knowledge is a high Korean crime rate and high Korean support for North Korea which has threanted to nuke Japan on several occasions. I'm not saying this justifies discrimiantion but in a homogenous society this does not hurt.

In reality the Koreans can avoid most discrimination by becoming Japanese. Most won't do that. One can argue that they should not have to do this, but there situation is better than a black person in America.

Do I have an option of not being "black"?

The truth is I can go to any country in the world and blow up some discrimination issue. That does not necessarily describe what is going on on a daily basis.

5)

"No, not in the least. It's just that maybe 0.5% of women hold interesting, beyond-"Office-Lady" (secretarial) jobs. And that most Japanese men don't think of women as potentially having brains. A female friend who had an internship at a research lab said she felt like a Martian because (well, OK, one reason was she was the only redhead in the building). But she was also the only non-secretarial woman there. Most men she talked to found the idea of women contributing intellectually unusual."

Uhm where are you getting this information? From what national poll? There are so many logical fallacies that I don't know where to began, starting with bias sampling.

In Japan there are women politicians, who have been cabnet officials, there are women's in business.

Is there sexism?

Yes.

What you fail to realize is that many Japanese women don't want to take on "traditional male" roles, as shocking as that might be for your Western mind to comprehend...I know...unthinkable.

How many Japanese women have you spoke to about these issues? Here is something, if you know more than 5 Japanese women (I do) ask them what they think of American women? Many of them will tell you they are mannish acting.

Many Japanese women are quite happy to go to college, major in something like "English Literature" work for a few years, and get married, get pregnant and quit.

However some, like my sister-in-law work is a HR manager at a major Japanese insurance company.

When I worked in Japan, as a contractor for IBM Yamato, near Yokohama, my manager was a woman. This was an American research branch, but it was ran like a Japanese company, there were no other Americas to my knowledge working at the facility, a few Europeans and one African guy, Indians, and a few Chinese.

Women are not slaves, women are not legally suppressed and made subordinate. There are laws against sexual discrimination, more than a few in Japan.

The thing is many women are comfortable in traditional roles. Similar to how many Western women can't comprehend how many Muslims women want to wear burqas.

As i said, if you haven't lived there and you don't know Japanese people personally to the point where they will discuss these things with you you likely won't see these things or know them.

6) Japan is aware of this. (in regard to the economy). What you don't understand is that, like most East Asians, Japanese prize social stability over economic growth.

Similar to how many Europeans prize their vacations over higher salaries that Americans have. They could have a standard of living like us but they don't want it, other things are more important. This is a cultural choice.

Japanese people would rather have slightly less income then have mobs of third worlders in their streets and have the issues we do in America, the UK, France. When the Japanese see these things on TV they get very scared...no I'm not joking. It does not endear them to massive immigration.

They are moving in that direction but they are doing it more pragmatically and more intelligently.

They are opening the borders to specific countries for specific jobs they need people in. IT visa for educated CHinese and Indians. Visas for nurses from the Filipines. All the people must show some minimum Japanese language ability (with a written test) as well.

http://pmsol3.wordpress.com/2007/05/24/japan-ponders-increasing-immigration/

So far, as I said, despite having a stagnant economy for over 10 years (which is finally showing some growth) Japan is still the second wealthiest nation in the world. Their GDP growth is higher than the EU average, unemployment very low by international standards...they aren't in dire staights yet.

7)Please, America jails innocent people as well, consider the people released in the last 10 years due to DNA testing. We have probably executed innocent people as well.

As I said, Japanese people see there system as fine, and if they want to change it they will. Japan is a democracy.

In the end they value social stability and harmony at a group level over an individual, I know, hard for a Western to immagine that Aryn Rand style selfishness is not dominent all over the world and people can actually live in a developed nation without thinking this way, but it happens (Singapore is more extreme in this idea, and so is S.Korea, both considered developed nations):

http://pmsol3.wordpress.com/2007/06/18/what-nations-are-considered-developed/

Is there system perfect? Nope. Whose is? Not Americas, I know that for certain. I do know that in Singapore Paris Hilton would have been caned like everyone else and in Japan she would have been serving jail time,a nd would not be famous for being an Internet whore whose only redeeming quality is she was born wealthy.

8)"If the women could have the choice in a binding vote, how do you think they would vote on the issue?"

I think you would be shocked.

Similar to how America kept harping democracy in the MIddle East and they keep voting for radicals and terrorist groups. :-)

Japanese women, on average, do not want to live like American women. Although they like their clothes...well actually they probably prefer European clothes.

Believe it or not many Japanese who come here see Americans are crass and selfish. I think most Japanese women would never put their personal goals above the welfare of their children. There are not many day care centers in Japan, that is just seen as nuts...giving your children to strangers to care fo. Japanese men didn't tell me that, women did.

Posted by: Dragon Horse at July 9, 2007 09:50 AM

My point is not to say Japan is pefect, it is not, but it is not worse than other developed nations.

The sexism thing is also true in Italy, Greece, and maybe less so in France but still worse than the Anglosphere.

The discrimination issues...are worse in many Western countries than Japan.

Immigration to me is a none issue, that is their business.

Economically they are not doing great, but they are not below average for a developed nation, they are above average, just below where they used to be.

As far as the court system...that is their business and I would argue we have similar or more extreme issues, just in different areas.

Posted by: Dragon Horse at July 9, 2007 09:56 AM

Sorry if I came off very aggressive, but I took offense to that post.

To which your natural reaction was to GIVE offense with logical fallacies and racial insults?

Do I have an option of not being "black"?

Nope. But you DO have the option of not assigning racial epithets and attitudes to people just because you disagree with them, or making groups assertions about other racial groups, such as whites.

I've lived and worked in a mixed community my entire adult life, and the absolute quickest way to lose your credibility among a diverse group of non-discriminatory intelligent people is to begin with "You can't understand X because you're (white, black, American, etc.)." The second-quickest is to throw the race card out of the gate while making racist remarks of your own.

The Japanese do indeed have a somewhat homogenous group-think culture with its own strengths and weaknesses. If you'd started with your last post, you could have spared thousands of pixels and some animosity.

Posted by: Tully at July 9, 2007 10:39 AM

Tully:

I never said "all white people think X"

I said white people are more likely to think X based on Y (cultural upbringing).

I stand by that based on my experience as a minority living and growing up in a Western nation and having lived abroad and observed various white people from Western nations behave in none Western countries.

Yes we all have bias, and I do believe that Western people who are white are far more likely to have chauvanistic attitudes toward nonWestern socities.

That is not racist or playing the race card. I believe that is reality, if you like it or not it still exists.

Posted by: Dragon Horse at July 9, 2007 11:24 AM

And now I remember why I stopped reading this site. Too much banter back and forth of personal attacks rather than thoughtful political discussion about a group of people sharing a common political philosophical approach that is new and different and supposedly better than what our country currently has to offer. Posts and commentary sections like this just eat away at overall credibility.

Posted by: Jenn at July 9, 2007 03:49 PM

Well, in fairness, it was Dragon Horse's rant that started this. As I recall, all of this began with a fairly innocuous 4th of July post by Jon about how freedom was good. That seemed pretty uncontroversial until Marcus decided to start ranting about the country's flaws (which I don't think anyone denied existed), but which had absolutely nothing to do with the post. Then Dragon Horse decided that since he lived in Japan (and is black)and had a Japanese wife, he is therefore the only person qualified to give an opinion about that country.

The blogosphere is getting stranger and stranger. Or people are looking for reasons to blow their tops. And, you know, if people are going to insult others or rant, it would be better if they used their real names instead of hiding behind pseudonyms.

Posted by: Marc Schneider at July 9, 2007 04:21 PM

Marc:

"Then Dragon Horse decided that since he lived in Japan (and is black)and had a Japanese wife, he is therefore the only person qualified to give an opinion about that country."

No that's not it.

I also did not rant, I responded to what was posted, directly to each point made. Then when spoken to directly I responded to the author.

I'm not the only person qualified to have an opinion it seems I'm the only one who is knowledgeable about Japan.

If you are going to criticize some place as the original poster did, that is fine, but at least be knowledgeable.

Argument speaks for itself. No one should be concerned about anything said if what they said has validity.

Posted by: Dragon Horse at July 9, 2007 09:50 PM

what the author seems to be overlooking is that the USA is a one party nation. yes, the corporations that control our empire shift money about now and then, but it is still a one horse race to them. the facade keeps the voter turnout low and the results are predictable - thats what a ruling class is all about and they are quite good at it.

Posted by: jim Lynch at July 9, 2007 09:53 PM

What Tully said.

Posted by: Jon Kay at July 9, 2007 10:59 PM

uhh, I like the Netherlands.......

Posted by: Marcus at July 12, 2007 12:09 AM

I think Europe, the US, Canada, Japan, Singapore, perhaps Malaysia (soon) are in the same league.

Japan has a lot of racism towards the Koreans who were born in Japan. They don't seem to be considered Japanese. Japan also has a history of war crimes denial, with regards to the atrocities committed by the Japanese Army during WWII.

I'd say that Europe takes better care of its people than does the US. Canada does too, but they've got a lot of oil. Politically, I think Europe has a great way to avoid partisanship with their proportional representation system that allows them to have more choices in their candidates.

Posted by: political forum at July 16, 2007 11:44 PM

Jon, Tully,

Easy guys. No-one's saying that all white Americans are baselessly opinionated and all people of color aren't.

So no need to straighten your guest out about Japan.

Posted by: AlanDownunder at July 20, 2007 06:27 AM

In case you need help with this let me knoww.

Posted by: meds guide at August 17, 2007 10:26 AM