Centerfield

It doesn't seem shocking. I took Cengel, Brian and others at their word and did a bit of studying. My objections concerning REASONABLE enforcement and border security were not resolved and I point out here a few things. First, let us be clear where Obama stood after rejecting English as a requirement. Obama tries to scrape enforcement at the workplace.

Starbucks, have a comment?

Next, comes the matter of even having a system to enforce workplace regulations. EEV the answer after a bi-partisan rejection of National ID cards for all?

A bit more on a National ID card

What good would legalizing 12 million do for me, if my paycheck continues to get slashed by MORE illegals and contractors who don't give a crap about the law? Nothing. Where was Bloomberg on this one? Spending any of his billions to push compromise?

I tried to put self-interest behind me and make my case for the rationality of immigration reform including qualified Amnesty. In the end, both those who favor deportation and the idiots on the Left who DO NOT KNOW WHAT COMPROMISE MEANS ruined the chances for resolution. The Status Quo however, will continue to exploit illegals, hurt American workers while the Middle Class and Upper Middle Class renovate their apartments and hire cheaper day care and cleaning services. The impasse is bad for America, but a foolish bill just makes another round of crap down the road a certainty. I do not trust Democratic leadership nor do I think the hard core Right knows what best for all Americans or what is even practical in a Liberal Democracy. They would have rather deported the slaves than assimilate them..

Tully, you could have created a fairer bill. Cengel, despite his ideology could write a fairer bill. In the end, some here were right that the Democrats were not interested in the Deal they said they would make. No plausible enforcement, nor security, then no bill. Given the shape of the final bill, I cannot say in good conscience that it would have helped me, America or even our relationship with Latin America.

If Hillary emerges from the primaries as the candidate, I will listen VERY closely to what she proposes. If Kennedy got trashed by the Left for trying to make a deal, imagine what the Left will say about Hillary. Once again, the Left and Hard Right get what they wanted -nothing but Status Quo and a worsening crisis for American labor and our healthcare system. It is all quite pathetic, but as I said before, not surprising. If Jefferson and Adams were in charge of this compromise, it would have happened.

Sorry my link for EEV is here

Seems unlikely anything else could be mustered since labor day sort of rings the bell for the fall push to the primaries.

Good riddance to thie compromise, but here's a non-trivial question...how locked in is the nevertheless-unsatisfactory status quo?

If "both sides" killed it for essentially opposite reasons (IOW, because it was either too kind to immigrants or too onerous upon them), then are we just left with no hope of reform, and enduring absurdity? The crappiness of the current hodge-podge of rules and enforcement is indeed poor reason to pass a crappy bill, and I'm glad it won't happen. But are we doomed to "turd sandwich or no sandwich?" I'll be the first to admit that such a condition is a function of insufficient consensus, but that doesn't make the prospect muddling along any less discouraging.

My thoughts exactly......and this Status Quo really effects my income. Maybe Weston, Mass is calling.

I have no answers at the moment. Please post yours if you do.

I still can't decide if I'm happy or sad about that. What a worm of a bill.

LOL, I think that just proves you are indeed a centrist dedicated to the reasonable middle path.

No insult intended cengel......

My capsule take: In their deal-making they tried to please everyone, and instead gave everyone something to hate.

None taken, Max. I've never described myself or considered myself to be a "centrist". I'm a conservative... never claimed anything different.
I just appreciate the level of dialogue here.

"Non-centrist" is not something I consider an insult.... nor would "centrist" or "conservative" or even "liberal" for that matter... it's just a description of where some-one is on the political spectrum.

Well, I think the conservative position on immigration will cost New Mexico and Florida. Hillary slams Thompson. Not so bright a remark, Cubans might not support illegal immigration but they certainly want refugees given sanctuary. Would we call Fred's rebuttal bright? And please note RNC comment on Hillary. I don't think she's been waving a white flag, just look at the Republican numbers wanting out of Iraq this year. I'm not sure how Republicans think they're going to win in 2008. They've lost the Black and Hispanic vote. 75% of Jews voted Democrat last election.