Centerfield

I had always known of significant Russian culpability in the defeat of the resistance. Obviously, UJ didn't want the AK to compete for power with his "puppets". The Central Committee discussed who they thought these “people” were .

Some blame is cast on England (not exactly sure why), but FDR seems not to have wanted to provoke Uncle Joe. What did Churchill think of FDR's reasoning? What pressure could he have used on the Americans and at what real consequence to the war’s outcome?

Of course there was a history of resistance in Warsaw which all sides under reported. Some find such historical facts make today's Leftist comparisons between Nazis and Zionists more than insultingly unreasonable.

Thank you

Interesting post. I remember an interview with a Journalist who asked a Russian general about Warsaw back in the 60’s He said the Russia “erupted in fury” over the allegations that they waited for the uprising to be put down before attacking. His side of the story was that the Russian had just completed a difficult offensive and needed time to bring in fresh divisions and replacement tanks and ammunition to begin another attack. He also said that the Germans had torn apart the rail and road network and the Russian engineers needed time to get the [now very long] supply lines working. These engineers also would also be needed for the river crossing that the Russians would have to go through in order to get to Warsaw, always a difficult operation. The supply problem was the reason for not allowing bombers to over fly Warsaw, the Russians did not have any spare aviation fuel to send them back and there was a lack of prepared airfields. This general said that the Poles were told to hold off on their uprising until the Russian attack was planned, that by coordinating the uprising with the attack both operations would have better chances for success, the Poles did not listen and that sealed their fate. I will have to re read what Glantz, the WW2 historian that is now going through the Soviet archives, says about Warsaw. BTW, his histories of Russian operation paint an awe inspiring picture of what the Russian did to win that war, I don’t think we in the west really have any idea what they went through.

Not sure how the UK could be cast to blame in this. Churchill wanted to send in planes unilaterally, but FDR feared the breakup of Allied solidarity. Churchill was unhappy, but he did listen to FDR.

The supply problem was the reason for not allowing bombers to over fly Warsaw, the Russians did not have any spare aviation fuel to send them back and there was a lack of prepared airfields.

Let's hear it for guilty consciences and excuse-making. The West could've flown, or maybe even freighted in fuel, so that one doesn't fly. I'm entirely sure they could've cleared some appropriate airfield within range if they'd wanted to. I bet they did, in fact. Stalin tried to cover his tracks, too, with some obvious lies.

Stalin even forbade overflights. He wouldn't discuss the matter on any reasonable grounds.

I don’t think we in the west really have any idea what they went through.

Oh, yes, we do. I have a great book on the subject, by Nina Tumarkhin, titled "The Living & The Dead", about how Stalin's love of killing his people, came to be reflected in his style of war and excuses for killing even more. It also talks about Soviet use of WWII as a myth. Great stuff.

OK, since Amazon seems to have Tumarkhin troubles, maybe the West doesn't know, after all. ;-)

My grandfather happaned to be one of the officers in the Polish Home Army during that uprising.

What the Soviets did was very much on purpose. They let the Poles be massacered because the Home Army happaned to support the government in exile in London rather then the puppet one set up by Stalin.

Not only did the Soviets refuse to support the uprising (even with Artillery support.. which was well within range) and refuse to allow allied supply planes to airlift supplies (btw Warsaw was within range of the long-range supply transports without need for refuling on Soviet held territory by the time of the uprising)... they threatened to FIRE upon any allied plane that attempted to resupply the Poles.

The germans poured troops into Warsaw while the Soviets watched. In the end, the Home Army suffered something like 90% casualties. The survivors being able to infiltrate through the german lines and disperse into the countryside.

My grandfathers reward for his participation in the uprising was a medal from the newly installed Soviet backed government....and being placed under house arrest for the rest of his life.

I remember my mother (who managed to escape to the West with her mom at the end of the war) used to get letters from him occasionaly, they looked like swiss cheese from where the censors would cut-out portions....there were usualy more holes then paper left of them.

Alot of people today don't remember that this stuff really did happen.

Forgive me if I don't puy much credence in 60's era Soviet generals or revisionist historians.

Katyn forest anyone?

Cengel,
Some story, wow. Jon's logic might apply to Auschwitz as well. Central Committee knew who made up the Polish resistance the first time it ordered their execution at Katyn forest. See documents above. In the second uprising, Stalin gets a second chance to kill as many nationalists as possible. Russian people really fought and in time Stalin killed their war heroes. I think the behavior speaks for itself regarding Warsaw.

So the allies covered up Katyn and this second Russian sin and kept quite. Poland got the last laugh. Solidarity (and a Polish Pope plus Reagan and Russia's uncompetitivness) broke the Kremlin's back. You have to give Poles and Polish Jews alot of credit for never giving up the fight.

I'm still not seeing why FDR wasn't more insistent. What would have changed if the Russians went even faster? Or if they had gone slower?

quite quiet, that is.

OK, did some more reading. Unfortunately Glantz has not covered this part of the war yet, hopefully he will some time. Here is how I think things happened. Stalin was not informed as to when the uprising would start, when it did Stalin, paranoid as usual, was suspicious that Churchill and the Poles in England were plotting against him. Stalin’s reaction was that if Churchill and FDR wanted to start an uprising it was up to them to support it, if he was not consulted about it he was under no obligation to help, also note that he had also started the “Lubin Committee” as his hand picked “representatives” of the Polish people. The airfield excuse was not very valid, there were in fact fields available Stain denied the use of these fields to show his displeasure at not being informed of the uprising. Denying airfields made Churchill suspicious of Stalin’s intentions, so the mutual distrust clouded the issue. On the other hand the Russian forces were at the end of a long offensive and it is logical that they were not yet prepared for an attack due to force losses and supplies. Warsaw was an important transportation hub directly on the way to Germany and strong German forces, including elite formations like the Herman Goring division were defending the city. The Fistula river was a major obstacle and anyone who has studied WW2 military operations knows the difficulties in forcing a bridgehead. As far as artillery support goes the Russians had problems throughout the war with fire support, they did not have the sophisticated “instant” fire support systems of the other armies. The US Armies ability for almost any unit to call in artillery fire was something the Russians simply did not have, most of their fire was laboriously pre registered before a barrage could begin.

Hero returns home

Wow, I'm sorry your grandad got caught up in this. It's such nasty stuff.

As Max said, quite a story....

It also says something about his bravery - even if they had been supported properly, it was no easy thing they were doing.