Centerfield

Hmm. how much do the averages show us? I think that at some point within the next 2 election cycles people actually will begin to pay closer attention to the problems with SS, and when they do, I think there will be a fair amount of support for some means-testing for benefits, on a sliding scale. I also think the cap on contributions is going to rise or be eliminated.

Of course, just how much of a difference such changes will make is an open question and a matter of the exact nature of the changes made. There are always going to be way more seniors who really need what SS has promised and more than there are seniors who have so much that they really wouldnt miss that check or some portion of it.

If means testing were to be implemented, I really don't think it would be fair to start decreasing a recipient's collected amount unless they had income (or equivalent liquifiable assets not including their home or some exemption amount) well above poverty level. We might well have to entertain wading into the waters of regional variation in cost of living as well, which could be a nightmare.

What do folks think is a reasonable target where means testing could be phased in? Maybe somewhere in the range of 80 to 120% of median income? Higher? Lower? Under no circumstances?

It's not that I am unsympathetic to the latter argument. Rather, I think it's just being realistic to expect that when more people become aware of the nature of the problem, they are going to support changes that effect them the least, and that means support for means testing and cap elimination, since those changes will primarily affect wealthy minorities.

If any means testing is implemented, I can only support it is it's both gentle and on a sliding scale. We can't punish the prudent and reward the short-sighted. OK, maybe we will have to at least a little, but we need to do our best to avoid this. I don't mind coming out a little bit less than OI expected to be ahead of folks who were less prudent (and fortunate, too, cheerfully granted), but I better not come out behind folks who piled up debt, bought what they wanted, and didn't set that much aside for the future.

I suspect it'd start out like 150% of mean and head down from there.

I have never had a problem with means testing. Granted, the majority of the previously mentioned net worth is not very liquid. Most of it is in their homes. As far as only 10.1% of the elderly under poverty, that is fine and dandy. However, that stat doesn't tell us where the other 90% is. Where is the median income compared to the median of the working population? I think the baby boomers will be much better off than their own parents when they retire, though.

Of course, the politicians don't vote to change it because the elderly go out in force to protect their interests. Until the working population says enough is enough and votes on it as an issue, there will not be a change in the status quo. If the politicos wait long enough, Generation Y will take care of it. Based on what I am seeing, they could be quite ruthless on their elders if it is left up to them. ;)

Until the working population says enough is enough and votes on it as an issue, there will not be a change in the status quo. If the politicos wait long enough, Generation Y will take care of it. Based on what I am seeing, they could be quite ruthless on their elders if it is left up to them.

Wicked true, Jim. Wicked true. Seniors can be relied upon to vote to protect their interests, and that is likely to lead to younger folks paying more attention over time, as they get progressively harder hit by what seniors show up and vote to protect while juniors blow it off. Democracy in action, right?

Still, I expect such dynamics to play out relatively gradually over time. So even as the juniors become ruthless, I don't think they'll be either irrational or mindlessly punitive. As they come to pay closer attention and care more, they'll also see the arc of where they themselves are headed. That's why I think the end of the income cap and the integration of means testing are things that majorities will opt for sooner or later.

And my sense is also that most folks are down with the general principle of not just taking a promise off the table if someone has relied on that promise and doesn't have time to adjust their plans in the face of a radical reneg...