Centerfield

Didn't we just establish how wrong forecasters can be? ;-)

So Brian, let me get this straight, your upset that a private, non-governmental entity has made a judgement regarding violent video games?

Nope. I'm not upset at all. A little amused maybe. These lists might help a parent or two out a little bit. But there's a bit of a conundrum built in. Which is that the parents that are concerned enough to be involved in such decisions are probably going to be able to make the right decisions for their kids in such cases with or without the help of some gatekeeper's assistance council. I mean, how about if you just, oh, I dunno, look at the picture on the box before buying the game.

Meanwhile, the parents who aren't equipped or concerned aren't going to have the access or follow-through.

We'd all like to think that if only everyone had the right inphormation, they'd make great decisions. But we know that things like will, character, and motivation are just as important. In other words, its more of a processing problem than a data problem. This gatekeeper group thinks good data solves problems. I think the "data" that have provided seems blindingly obvious.

Some parents allow their kids to play games like grand theft auto because they don't have the will and perseverance to insist on their views, to say no, to be the bad guy if need be. And I'm not trying to be too judgemental or harsh here. It starts out with the understanding or necessity to pick your battles, and as time passes you pick fewer, and the next thing you know, well, they've taken Poland and France.

I'm not a parent, but I recognize the good ones, and they all know that a little Churchill goes a long way.

Facetious question from the time-challenged: Isn't a high dudgeon something like a petulant frenzy with extra snootiness?

Just askin'. :-)

I don't know BK, I think there is some use in lists like that.... at least as a time-saver. Not all parents, let alone grand-parents are up on the latest game titles. Definately not all of them goto the stores themselves to pickup games. Some of them just find out the name of the game little johnnie wants and call up the best buy to order it over the phone.

You cant always tell the nature of the game by the name, Saints Row, for instance doesn't sound that objectionable (to the clueless) by the name nor does Just Cause. Furthermore the boxes (if you don't look for the ratings) aren't always a give away either. Again, using our 2 examples... the front cover for Just Cause just has a picture of a guy standing in front of a red star. Even the Saints Row box doesn't look too graphic... some generic teenagers standing in front of some cars with one or two holding guns. If I was an 80 year old grandma wanting to order something for her grandkid and didn't know the difference between an X-Box and an I-Pod, I bet I'd have trouble differentiating between Saints Row and something far less objectionable like Halo.

Furthermore, even if you do goto the store and and do check the box and realize that the game isn't appropriate for little Johnnie, that still leaves em scrambling to figure out something that you can get them. Being able to know ahead of time seems like it could be helpfull eh?

Personaly, my kid's a little bit too young to be interested in video games yet... but I'd probably split the difference when he's older. Some of those lists are a little too puritanical. There is a world of difference between something like a Halo or Dead or Alive and something like Saints Row or Grand Theft.

I don't know BK, I think there is some use in lists like that.... at least as a time-saver. Not all parents, let alone grand-parents are up on the latest game titles. Definately not all of them goto the stores themselves to pickup games. Some of them just find out the name of the game little johnnie wants and call up the best buy to order it over the phone.

Oh absolutely Cengel. Cheerfully conceded. I'm really just saying we ought not to kid ourselves about how much good its doing. This story bubbling into the holiday roar probably served to remind a few folks to think twice before buying that requested video game.

On the flip side, we also ought not get TOO exercised over the unproven hypothesis that such videogames necessarily function as greenhouses for budding sociopaths.

I wish I had a link to a study I recently saw outlined in the paper, which claimed data suggesting that such games can actually have a beneficial substitution effect. In other words, folks who may be prone to violence are sated by acting out in video games. Consider the violent lazy. :-) They hate people, but don't feel like getting up off the couch, so they order in a pizza and bash in cyber heads for 3 hours.

There really is a chicken-egg type question in this. Do people who love scarface become thugs, or do thugs love Scarface?

It might be amusing to find out what result some of these rating systems would give for the cartoons that the grandparents grew up watching. Violence rating for Roadrunner, anyone? Yosemite Sam? (Being a cartoon can't be that much less "realistic" than some of the animation in these games....)

Absolutely BK, I don't think that violent video games turn kids into sociopaths or anything like that. My main concern is with games like Saints Row or Grand Theft that tend to glorify the "gangsta" lifestyle (same with muisic and videos too)..... I don't think they'll turn little Johnnies into violent thugs just because the see violence on the screen.... but it may help lull little johnnie into wanting to associate with real life gangs because the games and muisic and videos portray these people as "cool"..... and that is about as far from reality as possible.

It's really not the graphic nature of those games that I find so objectionable rather the moral/hero's of the storyline that they are pushing. As opposed to something like a Halo, which isn't really all that much less graphic or violent but puts that graphic violence in the context of Space Marine's fighting off aliens bent on the destruction of the human race in the far distant future.... rather then the "cool gang-banger" mugging little old ladies for welfare checks and bonus points.

Note also that I strongly agree with you that alot of the people pushing the ratings/censorship are WAY too over-zealous about how much influence exposure to such content will have on the average kid.

That's a good point about lifestyle glorification. If I had kids, I'd make it a point to unmercifully ridicule it to them, and make them justify it. Hopefully I'd be looking for them to have no good defense except fot that they just like the music and the clothes, and aren't mulling a mugge career choice.

It will take another generation before we're able to find out if such games lead to demonstrably worse outcomes on that count. Elvis didn;t turn out to be the devil, so I'm a hair skeptical. :-)

I think the lion's share of it has to do with adolescent training wheel tryouts of attitudes and perspectives with an eye to impending adulthood. For some long time now, fashion and music have been the easiest and ultimately safest venues for (relatively speaking) mildly rebellious establishment of an adolescent's independent identity. And parents not liking it has an awful lot to do with it. It's a way for kids to sort of warn their parents that they feel like they need to do what they have to do to make it in the world, and to try out that fierce 'if you mess with me, you'll be sorry 'tude. Many parents have a tendency to minimize their children's perceptions of fear and anxiety of the unknown as adulthood looms. It seems a lot easier AFTER you've figured it out to some extent, and some adults have a hard time harking back to what it felt like. There's always going to be a good reason in our culture for a song like "parents just don't understand" to be a big hit. (not fresh prince is remotely gangsta)

Iconically speaking, the gansta lifestyle is about growing up, facing a hostile world that frightens you, and defiantly running your jolly roger up the flagpole. So kids identify with it on that level. And the most practiced components of it are really the clothes and the music.