Centerfield

It's not surprising in politics. Try to think of it in these terms: if you don't like smoking would work for Phillip Morris?

Mele had a track record of working far left; thus, the controversy.

Posted by: Richard Becker at August 25, 2006 12:07 PM

Would I sell tobacco products for them? No, of course not. Would I help the Atria group, that includes PM and Nabisco/Kraft, in their effort to provide food to third world countries? Absolutely, I would. In the words of the Senator himself, it's about "a cause greater than my own self interest."

Posted by: Mathew at August 25, 2006 12:18 PM

Would I help the Atria group, that includes PM and Nabisco/Kraft, in their effort to provide food to third world countries? Absolutely, I would.

And if you could choose from between 2 different groups planning to help feed the 3rd world, and one also sold tobacco products and the other did not, what then? Would you regard each group as equally meritorious?

Posted by: bk at August 25, 2006 12:36 PM

"Pup tent?" I like. And look out for the Scoutmaster. I hear he's a bit odd.

Posted by: Tully at August 25, 2006 12:43 PM

And if you could choose from between 2 different groups planning to help feed the 3rd world, and one also sold tobacco products and the other did not, what then? Would you regard each group as equally meritorious?

I would consider their action of helping third world countries equal, yes. If my career goal was to help third world countries and I thought that Atria did a better job than the other group, would I work for them although they sold tobacco products? Yes, I would. I am not going to lose any sleep if the Phillip Morris branch of the Atria Group goes out of business, but that doesn't mean I am not unwilling to work with them in areas of common interest. What Kos is saying is that although Nicco was the architect of the site that basically was the foundation of the left netroot movement, he made a made a decision Kos didn't like, therefore he is going to sell him down the river. That is just counter-productive and effing stupid.

Posted by: Mathew at August 25, 2006 12:53 PM

In the words of the Senator himself, it's about "a cause greater than my own self interest."

Yes, and that there is some common cause between an unreformed alumnus of the Howard Dean campaign and John McCain should not be seen as sufficient reason for one side or both to raise their eyebrows? Posted by: Simon at August 25, 2006 01:12 PM

To clarify, my intent was never to bash Philip Morris, which does indeed support an abundance of non-tobacco products and worthwhile causes, as you point out. It was simply a quick way to illustrate why there is a debate.

As the first campaign manager I ever worked with said ''never cross the aisle and never work with kooks.'' Kooks aside, her reasoning was clear enough. When you start working on political campaigns for opposing parties, people will naturally begin to question your convictions much like they might question a candidate who switches parties. And that is precisely why Mele and McCain are coming under fire. It seems to me whether the criticism is warranted or not is not the issue because it should be, and probably was, expected.

Mele's decision appears to make him disingenuous to past causes. Ironically, none of it will be an issue if McCain wins.

Posted by: Richard Becker at August 25, 2006 01:24 PM

LOL, Tully! That wouldn't be the Alec Baldwin Scoutmaster, would it?*

*To get this reference, one had to watch SNL during the Adam Sandler years. Sorry; I couldn't find a clip on YouTube.

Posted by: Blue Jean at August 25, 2006 02:11 PM

Raise their eye brows, Simon? Sure, why not. Black ball either men, question their loyalty, attempt to destroy their business, end your friendship with them... Not unless you are completely paranoid and self absorbed, in my view. The only conservatives that are small enough to use the fact that the guy who designs McCain's website also designed Howard Dean's, are those conservatives who aren't going to vote for him no matter what. The average primary voter, in my calculation, will not care.

Posted by: Mathew at August 25, 2006 02:52 PM

Mele's decision appears to make him disingenuous to past causes.

What? Why? Fine, then for Kos to hold hands with Mark Warner, who disagrees with much of the nutroot agenda, makes him disingenuous. Oh wait a minute, we already knew that. By this logic, we shouldn't support or vote for any candidate, because it is impossible for us to agree 100% of the time, therfore we should never vote for or support any candidate.

Posted by: Mathew` at August 25, 2006 02:55 PM

You mean I'm NOT the only one who remembers Canteen Boy's camping trip? :-O

I'm still a big fan of Buck Henry's SNL work as well, although I may be the only one around here old enough to remember it as "first season" stuff.

Posted by: Tully at August 25, 2006 02:59 PM

Blue Jean,

Here is some Kos logic for you:

I don't find what Tully said funny at all. In fact I refuse to watch anything Alec Baldwin is a part of because his political views are different than mine.

Posted by: Mathew at August 25, 2006 03:00 PM

Buck Henry? Now you're talking Pantheon level SNL humor. A VERY funny guy.

Posted by: bk at August 25, 2006 03:14 PM

By this logic, we shouldn't support or vote for any candidate, because it is impossible for us to agree 100% of the time, therfore we should never vote for or support any candidate.

Respectfully, I think you missed the point. Mele's decision appears to make him disingenuous to past causes, which tends far left, but I hardly said he is disingenuous. I'm merely pointing out that most people will see him as such, right or wrong, and that is the point. The fact that he had to expect criticism from both sides of the aisle is another point. None of it is surprising.

I think most people would agree it is virtually impossible to agree on every issue with every candidate. I don't think I presented that as my logic at all. Generally speaking, few issues fall into black and white decisions, despite current political contrast making, which is why centrists exist, I imagine.

Personally, Mele's choice is Mele's choice. While I think Mele's shift from Dean to McCain is equivalent to moving from being anti-tobacco to selling tobacco, considering McCain supports 90 percent of Republican positions, I'd be the last person to judge him. But to think that such a decision would be without potential consequence is down right silly. And that, is my point.

I do generally avoid watching Alec Baldwin too. Besides his odd political views, he's not that good of an actor. Ha.

Posted by: Richard Becker at August 25, 2006 03:35 PM

ROTFL! Yes, the Canteen boy skit has haunted me for a long time. ("Canteen Boy, have you ever had a mimosa?") I remember because that's around the time I stopped going on camping trips. ;-)

I'm afraid I missed the early years (as I was always sent to bed long before then.) so I only got to see Buck Henry in the reruns. I do recall one priceless moment when John Belushi as the Samurai accidentally cut Buck with his Samurai sword, so Buck had to wear a bandage for the rest of the show. The rest of the cast wore bandages too as solidarity.

I don't find what Tully said funny at all. In fact I refuse to watch anything Alec Baldwin is a part of because his political views are different than mine.

That's exactly what Redstate, Little Green Footballs, Powerline, etc. say. Are you really sure that you want to join them?

Personally, I find Alec Baldwin pretty easy on the eyes (though not so much in the past five years or so) and he knows how to laugh at himself, which earns him points in my book. Yes, I watch him, though there are some things he says I agree with, and some things I disagree with. I practically never agree with Ahnold or Fred Thompson or Bruce Willis or Cheryl Tiegs, et al, but I still watch them (when they're in something good, that is. ;-)

Posted by: Blue Jean at August 25, 2006 04:05 PM

Regardless, there really seems to be this notion in sports and politics that we're involved in some kind of pitched highly-emotive all-out war, that the other side are nothing less than demons who can't (and shouldn't) be interacted with, and that everything must be viewed in this starkly black-and-white good-or-evil prism.

I really don't know where it comes from, or why civility must be sacrificed on the altar of this rabid fanaticism, but it seems to be on both sides (as Mathew notes in his next thread) of the aisle, and we're seeing it manifested in professional and college sports, as well.

Maybe it's a generational difference-- the Greatest Generation actually knew what war really was, they had seen their friends or family die fighting true evil, and so they were able to put these so-called "political battles" in context with a greater perspective. Or maybe it's always been there, but I just didn't notice it.

But it seems to me that it's rather ridiculous when both sides of the aisle think they're fighting over something so huge and all-important, when the difference between them, if debated in Beijing or Rome or Kabul, would be almost indiscernible to the audience. To refuse to negotiate with jihadist terrorists is one thing (and, actually, it's something I don't always agree with). But to refuse to work with other mainstream Americans... That only demonstrates how little perspective these people have.

Posted by: Bobby at August 25, 2006 04:20 PM

That's exactly what Redstate, Little Green Footballs, Powerline, etc. say. Are you really sure that you want to join them?

Missed the sarcasm tag?

I'm moving my Buck Henry commentary over to the open thread....

Posted by: Tully at August 25, 2006 04:24 PM

Missed the sarcasm tag?

No, I don't think I did. :->

Posted by: Blue Jean at August 25, 2006 09:01 PM

Right on, Moose. It is amazing to me how reflexively intolerant the far-Left has become with regards to the war (I'm assuming that's why the hate McCain, and anyone who even speaks his name). Stalinism indeed. Also, the point about choosing friends based on politics is dead on. Who can be that small-minded? My two best friends are pro-Bush Republicans. My parents are to the Left of me on foreign policy, civil rights, and economic issues, but to the right of me on social issues. If you choose relationships based solely on politics, you're destined to be alone, or Tom DeLay.

Posted by: Rafique Tucker at August 26, 2006 08:56 PM