A Weblog of Centrist Voices in American Politics
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A Weblog of Centrist Voices in American Politics | |
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July 14, 2006Who's In Charge Here?In Triumph of the Authoritarians, John Dean attacks the authoritarians he claims have taken over the Republican Party. For more than 40 years I have considered myself a ``Goldwater conservative," and am thoroughly familiar with the movement's canon. But I can find nothing conservative about the Bush/Cheney White House, which has created a Nixon ``imperial presidency" on steroids, while acting as if being tutored by the best and brightest of the Cosa Nostra. Seems the former Nixon White House Counsel is not in a mood to pull his punches. Authoritarian conservatives are, as a researcher told me, ``enemies of freedom, antidemocratic, antiequality, highly prejudiced, mean-spirited, power hungry, Machiavellian and amoral." And that's not just his view. To the contrary, this is how these people have consistently described themselves when being anonymously tested, by the tens of thousands over the past several decades. Again, no punches being pulled. In a sense I think it's a shame that the rhetoric here is SO over the top and plays so closely into the words that some liberal democrats use to stereotype conservatives. But psychogically speaking ( I have a psych undergrad degree) it's spot on to suggest that social conservatives have a serious authoritarian streak. Of course saying that tends to lead to comparative political demonology (CPD). I'll cheerfully concede that such authoritarianism tends to crop up the further you head towards either wing. The existence of would-be nannies seeking power over everyday folk is a problem regardless of the wing you're talking about. The rub though is that the right wing is running things these days. Posted by Kranky Kritter at July 14, 2006 01:17 PMComments
In a sense I think it's a shame that the rhetoric here is SO over the top and plays so closely into the words that some liberal democrats use to stereotype conservatives.What did he say that was over the top? He seemed to back it up. The existence of would-be nannies seeking power over everyday folk is a problem regardless of the wing you're talking about.Nope, that's not what he said. He said it was conservatives that leaned that way. Posted by: rob at July 14, 2006 02:28 PM John Dean = Kevin Phillips. Former Republican (interestingly both under Nixon) who now do the "former Republican now Darling of the left press because of the 'ain't it awful what those right wingnuts are doing to us' schtick". As someone who as an adolescent spent so many hours watching the Watergate hearings, this has been a great disappointment.I held him in high esteem for his "cancer on the Presidency" speech. But hey, I bet the money's good! Posted by: c3 at July 14, 2006 02:33 PMI agree about the rhetoric, but even shorn of the rhetoric, the substance is thin gruel at best. As he freely admits, he has a book to sell, and in the present climate, nothing will turn a book into a bestseller like the "loyal Republican turns to the light side and fires withering attack back into own camp". Liberals will lap this up, but it's almost entirely a useless puff piece. Posted by: Simon at July 14, 2006 02:52 PMWith my background in psychology, I feel comfortable saying that the volume of studies into the authoritarian personality type can't be easily dismissed. Even many of those studies might be freighted with agendas and overheated rhetoric, but still, there's something there. Everyone know someone who fits the profile. By the way, this type tends to be a "bright-liner," Simon. Gray is bad. Spectrums are bad. Rigid black and white lines rock! Posted by: bk at July 14, 2006 03:19 PM"The rub though is that the right wing is running things these days." Depends where you are talking about BK.... local, state, national, international? But your spot-on about authoritorianism being a problem on both sides of the aisle. Posted by: cengel at July 14, 2006 03:36 PMI don't mind shades of gray where appropriate, Brian, I just don't seek to manufacture them where they don't naturally exist and impose them where they don't belong. Posted by: Simon at July 14, 2006 03:59 PMJohn Dean = Kevin Phillips. Former Republican (interestingly both under Nixon) who now do the "former Republican now Darling of the left press because of the 'ain't it awful what those right wingnuts are doing to us' schtick". As someone who as an adolescent spent so many hours watching the Watergate hearings, this has been a great disappointment.I held him in high esteem for his "cancer on the Presidency" speech. But hey, I bet the money's good! Posted by: c3 at July 14, 2006 07:31 PMSorry for the duplicate. Posted by: c3 at July 14, 2006 07:31 PMI definitely consider myself a fiscal conservative, but on social issues I probably come down just right of center. This presidency has been frustrating because I want to be able to defend their actions, but, other than a few fiscal matters, there hasn't been much that has been all that defensible. Brian, your assessment of the current administration's stance on social issues was a real eye-opener for me. Actually, it reminded me of my father -- authoritarian to the point of borderline fundamentalism. In the long run, I don't think either extreme of nannyism will survive for long. I suspect that most Americans have a strong enough streak of independence they would chafe under anyone's thumb whether that thumb was liberal or conservative. Posted by: Heather at July 15, 2006 02:09 PMI'm sorry, but it's been a couple of decades since I could take anything John Dean said seriously. He's a whore. I can't think of a better word, when that one fits so well. He will say or do absolutely anything to get money and attention. It is entirely typical of Dean that he backs up his polemic with the "support" of unrecorded and unverified conversations with a dead man, one who at the time of the purported conversations was exhibiting strong signs of either Alzheimer's or senile dementia (later acknowledged by his family). But I'll give Dean this much--he's a very talented whore. He always delivers good value, giving the "customer" exactly what they want. Posted by: Tully at July 15, 2006 11:17 PMTully, anything to say about authoritarian personalities, or are you limiting your commentary tom shooting the messenger? :-) Posted by: bk at July 17, 2006 08:30 AMIs it shooting the messenger to note that the messenger lies quite a lot, Brian, that he has shown that he will say or do anything to promote hisself and seems to be doing so again? That the "messenger" has his own agenda, one he's been playing for adulation and applause and folding money for 30-plus years? Dean pisses and moans that the GOP as a whole isn't the conservatives that HE wants them to be, but Dean isn't playing on that team, and hasn't for over three decades. Heh. CPD indeed, as much so as any Michael Moore movie or MoveOn campaign ad. I actually understated. Count 'em up--Dean uses four varietal classic cons as pointing dummies. (And misspells Russell Kirk's name, BTW.) All four are dead and unable to respond. He classifies ALL of the authoritarian right as conservatives, before admitting they don't even say they're conservatives. And he classifies ALL of the GOP as the far right! No where does he seem to notice that the so-con authoritarian right has less influence overall on the GOP now that it did ten or fifteen years ago--that the "Moral Majority" has faded in weight as the party tent grew. But he really gives away the nature of his polemic in the second paragraph, when he calls the current administration a Nixon "imperial presidency" on steroids" and compares it to the Mafia. This is classic Dean, a theme he pimped during the Reagan years as well, though he conveniently forgets to mention that. Dean is delivering exactly what his "customer" (the leftist BDS crowd) is willing to pay for--reinforcement of the "back to Nixon/Vietnam, all Republicans with power are evil" meme of the far left, a full-body press of the Chimpy McHitlerBurton meme, an outgrowth of his own previous book calling for the impeachment of Bush and Cheney before the 2004 election (in that book he alleged they would steal the election months before it was held--it's a mainstay of the MoveOn lexicon). It's a freakin' laundry list of leftist CPD, backed up with his own pseudo-authority as an ex-Nixonite. By no small coincidence, it's also a sales speech for his current book. So taking on Dean's polemic would simply be re-hash of all the CPD of the last five years, and Dean's posturing of the last thirty. Why bother? Because it comes from John Dean? Heh. Posted by: Tully at July 17, 2006 11:16 AMMeh. i identified at over the top rhetorically, and siad it was a shame. So right ther in my post, I'm trying to exclude that as the topic of the threab, which, if you go back and re-read, I think you'll see I'm trying to have NOT be Dean. Let's leave Dean aside. Suppose I cheerfully concede he's the antichrist. Do you have any thoughts on the notion of an authoritarian personality type? Surely you are well read enough to have some familiarity, por do I give you too much credit? Like I've said, I think it's got some agenda mixed in, but I also think there's still something there underneath the agenda. Posted by: bk at July 17, 2006 02:14 PMIsn't it also true to say, though, that the left has an authoritarian streak where it comes to people who disagree with them? The intolerence of genuinely free speech (paticularly on campuses, where there is freedom of speech and viewpoint diversity of all viewpoints to the left of Russ Feingold, who as we all know represents the real "moderate middle" in the Senate), the total disdain for popularly-enacted measures that they disapprove of... When one thinks of MorOn.org, "democratic pluralism" is not the first thing that jumps to mind, and it seems to me that it is not the right who runs to the courts to try to accomplish by judicial fiat (that is, to impose their view by authoritarian means) what they cannot achieve at the ballot box. If authoritarianism is desiring to impose one's views on society by means outside of the democratic process, I would suggest that there is a strongly authoritarian streak that runs through both parties once you move out of the middle. Posted by: Simon at July 17, 2006 02:53 PMOK, I'll bite. But psychogically speaking ( I have a psych undergrad degree) it's spot on to suggest that social conservatives have a serious authoritarian streak. So what? They're not alone. The farther you get from the middle, the greater the urge to authoritarianism. The "liberal" left is at least as authoritarian, just in different ways and on different topics. But they all seek to impose their preferred views and behaviors by force, having failed to achieve them democratically. That's true whether it's gay marriage or abortion, and coming from either direction. Posted by: Tully at July 17, 2006 03:43 PMthat's all I was asking for. I've already pointed out that they are not alone. I suggested that the reason to be concerned with the RW brand had to do with who was in charge of the White House and Congress, not some exclusivity of one wing. IMO, the RW brand has critical mass and the ear of those in power. That's the issue I called out in concluding my post. FWIW, I know that among social psychlogists there's a temptation to attribute authoritarian impulses more to the right wing, and I've seen weaseling there. But I don't know if, when push comes to shove, it's evenly distributed among both wings. It makes sense to me that if the distribution were found to be uneveven, this would be a function of the given culture and the given times. So, for example, we might, if we had a perfect test, be able to find out that wing X tended more towards authoritarianism at a given time. But that wouldn't mean that it was some enduring feature, that it was a product of one wing's ideology that the other wing was free from. IMO, authoritarianism is a function of true believerism, which can overtake any ideology. Posted by: bk at July 17, 2006 04:10 PMThe idea that Barry Goldwater or Ronald Reagan would have balked at reducing environmental regulation is comical. They were limited government conservatives, NOT liberal Republicans, like John Dean. Still, his comments beg a thought experiment: What if Goldwater or Reagan had lived on to become fully functional commentators of the 90's and the 21st century GOP? I think alot of the current party leadership would have been in for a toungue-lashing, particularly by Reagan. The 104th Congress' pentient for naming Federal Buildings after the Gipper would NEVER have happened. I don't even think he'd have needed to go public, he'd have called up the appropriate chairman and told them to take his name of these monstrosities immediately. IT IS a shame they're not able to speak for themselves. Too bad we can't find someone who will do the job for them. Posted by: Cavalier829 at July 17, 2006 06:00 PMCav - I'd not want to go too far laying the blame at the feet of the 104th. The problems began when you basically combined a big government conservative - actually, IMO, and in the most technically precise sense of the word, a neoconservative - President combined with a Congress that lacked any kind of restraint. Posted by: Simon at July 17, 2006 06:17 PMStill, his comments beg a thought experiment: What if Goldwater or Reagan had lived on to become fully functional commentators of the 90's and the 21st century GOP? They would have kicked the **** out of both sides of the aisle. Rhetorically, of course, but with weiht. Posted by: Tully at July 17, 2006 09:21 PMSimon, I'm in complete agreement that things have gotten worse without divided government, but the idea of naming buildings after the Gipper was begun right at the beginning of the, "Revolution," brought on by the 104th. As an aside I think we should stop calling them Neo-"conservatives," because they're NOT-conservative. Back when Reagan was first elected the term used to describe Reagan's philosphy was Neo-liberal. The present neo-"cons" trace their entry into the GOP back to him. Why shouldn't they be Neo-LIBERALS? Posted by: Cavalier829 at July 18, 2006 03:39 PMWhen one thinks of MorOn.org, "democratic pluralism" is not the first thing that jumps to mind, and it seems to me that it is not the right who runs to the courts to try to accomplish by judicial fiat (that is, to impose their view by authoritarian means) what they cannot achieve at the ballot box. Except in the case of >Bush v. Gore, of course. Funny how those on the right side of aisle always forget about that one. Posted by: Blue Jean at July 19, 2006 01:30 AMThere is nothing "conservative", nor for that matter, "Republican", about those who claim to be the champions of Reagan. Were Robert Taft, Barry Goldwater or Ronald Reagan alive today to see what has become of the Republican Party they spent their lives putting together, they'd PUKE! With that said, the next dumbass to call me a "RINO" because I don't adhere to the hijacking of my party by the religious "wrong" had better back it up with name and address, cause I'll come a' callin'. The "RINO's" are today's GOP leaders and their ilk who don't know shit from shineola about the true origins and principals of the Republican Party! Damn I miss Haldeman! Posted by: RealRepublican1854 at July 19, 2006 12:34 PMClassical Values blog has a rather thorough and comprehensive trashing of Dean and his tired re-hash of "a Freudian-Marxist melange of pseudo-scientific speculative foolishness." This spares me from writing it. Jean, who first filed in court to change the ballot-counting rules in Florida? (Hint: It wasn't the Bush campaign.) Did anyone at all file a legal challenge of the Florida legislature's right to certify its electors, which it did before the SCOTUS decision came down? Answer: Nobody. The interference in the initial declaration came from the Gore camp and from the state of Florida and its political subdivisions. So, tell us again, who was using the courts in an attempt to accomplish something by judicial fiat that they failed to achieve at the ballot box? Is it somehow unfair to defend oneself against legal challenges by arguing the law or the merits? Or is one supposed to lie down and let the other party take by court action and legal challenge that which you already have in hand? In the words of Will Smith, "Don't START none, won't BE none." I get tired of that old "robbed by the courts" chestnut. It's heard in courthouses across the land every day, inevitably uttered by parties whose cases lose on the merits. "We wuz robbed!" Heh. Posted by: Tully at July 19, 2006 03:39 PMTully, Why take the bait? You know, the only cure for that, "stolen," election would be a "Gore Presidency," which is why I continue to think he'd win hands-down if he chose to run. A Democrat's biggest wet dream is a timemachine and about 3,000 Jewish Grannies from Miami-Dade with a few more corpuscles. Posted by: Cavalier829 at July 19, 2006 04:19 PMI just love deconstructing articles of faith, Cav! I'm notorious that way. Neighborhood Watch sequesters me in the house during Xmas and Easter to keep me from telling local toddlers the truth about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. On the bright side they once forgot about Halloween, and now all the neighborhood kids ritualistically seek outhouses to tip. Preferably occupied ones. A long time ago (in a a galaxy far far away) I had a Jewish roommate who would invite Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormon missionaries in when they knocked, just so he could abuse their Bible quotations by spouting back the original verses at them in Hebrew. I think it stuck. :-) Posted by: Tully at July 19, 2006 05:17 PMOoh, I wish I had the memory cells to do that! There are any number of Fundies I've met in my life who'd quote and quote and quote. I'm much more a, "big picture," person. That would have been alot of fun. I'll leave it to you, as long as I get to watch. Posted by: Cavalier829 at July 19, 2006 06:02 PMI'm restricted to doing it in English. What little Hebrew and Yiddish I picked up by osmosis has faded away, except for a few choice Yiddish phrases not suitable for public forum use. But it was amusing. One pair of Witnesses fled in such haste they forgot their briefcase. We could see them on the sidewalk debating whether or not to knock and ask for it back, so we set it out on the porch for them. Even then it was a few minutes before they could bring themselves to come and get it. Almost as if they thought we had a Doberman or a rabbi or something we were waiting to set loose on them. Posted by: Tully at July 20, 2006 09:54 AMIn their minds it was probably something worse, like the smell of witches brew or sulfer they'd be worried about. Ah, the hazards of volunteer work. Posted by: Cavalier829 at July 20, 2006 11:25 AMarm chair and ottoman - http://www.electforce.info/arm-chair-and-ottoman.html Posted by: arm chair and ottoman at July 21, 2006 04:58 PMTully, I'm sorry, but it's been a couple of decades since I could take anything John Dean said seriously. He's a whore. I can't think of a better word, when that one fits so well. He will say or do absolutely anything to get money and attention.
However, when it comes to Goldwater, Dean does know of what he speaks; he was Barry Goldwater, Jr.’s roommate in college, and he’s currently writing a book about Barry Sr., with Barry Jr.’s help. So I wouldn’t dismiss his opinion with ad hominem attacks. Goldwater came from the libertarian wing of the GOP; he wasn’t interested in interfering with every aspect of a person’s privacy. Indeed, he was pro-choice, pro-gays in the military, and (Simon’s gonna hate this) thought religion had no place in polictics. On social issues, at least, Barry was closer to today’s Dems than today’s Reps. Brian is right; there are authoritarian wings in both parties, but right now, the conservative authoritarians are in power. And Heather's right too; Americans are too independent to put up with a nanny state forever, regardless of how scared they are. 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