A Weblog of Centrist Voices in American Politics
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A Weblog of Centrist Voices in American Politics | |
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June 28, 2006LiebermanKeeping Joseph Lieberman in the United States Senate is clearly in the national interest. One of the most ethical, sincere, thoughtful and balanced of senators, he stands as a monument to nonpartisan common sense in an increasingly shrill and polarized partisan environment.Discuss. (I will add my two cents in the comments.) Posted by Todd Pearson at June 28, 2006 10:04 PM Comments
I'm going to light my hair on fire. If I survive, I may have more to say later. Posted by: Todd Pearson at June 28, 2006 10:12 PMI think Morris has a point. Or Lieberman should declare his independence now. Democratic leadership has treated him poorly. Posted by: Maxtrue at June 28, 2006 10:32 PMIt would be like leaving the New York Yankees to play for the Staten Island Yankees. If moderates and centrists desert the two major parties, they essentially concede defeat, and relegate themselves to the sidelines. Since the two major parties will continue to dominate American politics with or without moderates, the only question is whether we want to have a say in how they are run or not. Whatever Morris says, I have a hard time believing that Lieberman will not beat Lamont; no Kossack has ever scored a major upset,and I see no reason to think that will happen now. Even if - by some weird twist of fate - he did, it isn't readily apparent to me why Liebermann couldn't at that point "go indy". Posted by: Simon at June 28, 2006 11:36 PMI think Morris is wrong. His thinking is about the same as punting on first down from your end zone in the first quarter of a football game. I also find his analogy that the voters would "happily" abandon the parties to be a little premature. Plus, Lieberman is leading right now. Morris seems to be of the opinion that Lamont has to beat Lieberman in the primary to gain momentum and resources. I think that is a false assumption. Lieberman's withdrawl as a Democrat would be a de facto victory and apply the same momentum, without having to spend the resources on the primary. Lamont would be in a stronger position for not having to battle in the primary. Plus, the third candadate always introduces the chance of a minority support candidate winning (ie, GOP) because the two major candidates spilt their support. There is no sure thing in Lieberman running as an Indepedent. It is still early in the primary. The real politicing des not begin until after the recess starts. Lieberman ought to stay the primary fight for now. If, once closer to the primary, it looks like it is not winable, then punt. To quit now would be political appeasment. A losing proposition. A campaign strategy change may be needed; but hitting the lifeboat seems premature. Posted by: Jim M at June 29, 2006 08:18 AMAll Lieberman had to do was keep his mouth shut a little more and there would be no primary challenge. He has to quit being FOX's news go to Dem, to either back what the president said, or slam whatever democrat "problem" that FOX dreamed up. Posted by: rob at June 29, 2006 08:19 AMYeah, Rob, Lieberman's problem is his conscience. What a moron. All he had to do to keep his seat was to abdicate his responsibility as a leader to speak his mind on an important issue. Obviously it's more important to have the job than to actually do it, right? I think Jim is right on target here. Morris is wrong. I expect Lieberman will ultimately win the primary, and that if necessary, he'll be able to call out an all-star team of supporters down the stretch...people who may not have voiced support yet, but who owe Lieberman and will be expected to come through if he needs them. And if by some chance he loses the primary, he can still run as an independent and then he'll drub the field. I don't think many democrats are aware of just how BAD a thing it would be for them if Lieberman jumped ship. I'm sure I can't convince them. The only way they'll find out is if it happens. In a sense, they deserve it, IMO. Posted by: bk at June 29, 2006 08:36 AMAppearing on Hannity & Colmes for the millionth time is not an act of conscience. Morris has a valid point with regard to Joe's suicidal tendencies in this race. They're being too arrogant at this point and right now, Joe isn't running as Joe - he's running as a party boss who thinks he and his campaign staff can say whatever they want to say and enough voters will buy it. He's not being true to himself at this point. I'd put the primary outcome at 50-50 right about now. But the trend lines aren't working in Joe's favor. Add to this, the fact that the election is basically a referendum on Iraq and that's the one issue Joe isn't talking about in Connecticut (and it's arguable to suggest that he cannot talk about it for fear of definite loss). Again - that's not being true to who Joe is ... it's trying to hang on for another six years. There's ample reason to fear for a Lieberman loss in the primary and I think Morris' comparison to Javits for a loss in the general election is even more forboding ... and likely accurate. Granted, it's been a while since Morris was right about something. He's overdue at this point, but this prediction's looking rather accurate so far. Posted by: Greg Wythe at June 29, 2006 09:22 AMLieberman can't run as an independant if he loses the primary. He would have to start collecting signatures before the primary. I don't think that would go over very well. Oh and he really showed a conscience when he voted against the filibuster of Alito when it mattered, and then voted against Alito when it didn’t matter. He has been endorsed by Hannity, O’Reilly, Coulter, and Malkin. What I am saying is he needs to try to quit stabing members of his party in the back. He should not be yuking it up on Hannity's show. Is calling someone a moron all you've got? Sad really. Posted by: rob at June 29, 2006 09:34 AMRob: I think bk was sarcastically calling Lieberman a moron; he wasn't calling you a moron. Posted by: Todd Pearson at June 29, 2006 09:56 AMFirst, Todd''s right. I was sarcastically calling Lieberman a moron for being too stupid to go along. IOW, saying he's a fool to act based on conscience, since it was jeopardizing his seat. Appearing on Hannity & Colmes for the millionth time is not an act of conscience. Because...? If you feel very strongly about an issue, publicly repeating yourself indeed IS an act of conscience. Someone else not liking your forcefulness is not relevant, Greg. I don't disagree that it turn out to be foolhardy careerwise. Personally, I admire him for it. Oh and he really showed a conscience when he voted against the filibuster of Alito when it mattered, and then voted against Alito when it didn’t matter. I agree. Wholeheartedly. He absolutely showed his conscience with this vote. Because he's a very principled guy. He voted this way because he didn't support Alito's nomination, but he DID support the notion that this was a decision that the entire Senate should be able to vote on, not one that should be derailed using procedural tactics. Rob, if Fox News said the sun was going to rise tomorrow, would you try to stop it? It's pretty obvious that you believe that Lieberman should show loyalty to his party first. It's equally obvious that Lieberman has chosen to honor his conscience on this issue becuase he disagrees with his party. It's a principled stand. Since you don't seem to LIKE this principle, apparently all you can do is call him an arrogant back-stabber. THAT is sad. You've as much as said that he has to go because he won't toe the line. That's a disgraceful and reactionary viewpoint for anyone who supports the ideals of the democratic party that existed when I strongly supported them. It's why I rarely identify with democrats anymore. Posted by: bk at June 29, 2006 11:06 AMEcho Simon. Moderates need to continue as a force in the parties. People do vote for the individual as much as the ideas. And the parties will benefit from members of character and conviction and not solely "party line" syncophants, (especially as the parties move further to the extremes). Posted by: c3 at June 29, 2006 11:28 AMIt's easy to be principled when it benefits you. The mark of character is remaining principled when it doesn't. Posted by: Tully at June 29, 2006 11:58 AMThis is all much-ado about nothing, as long as Lieberman is on the ballot in November. Rob is correct in that he'll have to start collecting the signatures BEFORE the Democratic Primary because the deadline is the day after. This won't go down well with the Kosers and who can blame them. It may even cost Lieberman the Dem nomination, but as long as he gets himself on the ballot, the race is his to lose. Posted by: Cavalier829 at June 29, 2006 01:12 PMThis is all much-ado about nothing, as long as Lieberman is on the ballot in November. Disagree to this extent--if the ideological left faction succeeds in driving Leiberman out of the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party actively hurts itself nationally. Posted by: Tully at June 29, 2006 02:08 PMTully, How do you mean? The Democratic Party already has the reputation of, at most, giving tepid support for the war in Iraq. If Lieberman wins as an Independent I've heard that he intends to still caucus with the Democrats as such. Only if Lamont won the seat would it REALLY hurt the Party. Wouldn't you say? Posted by: Cavalier829 at June 29, 2006 02:40 PMI'd also have to say, isn't it somewhat rich to see Dick Morris of all people talk about ethics and sincerity. Lieberman has these qualities in spades, but since WHEN did Morris care about EITHER? Posted by: Cavalier829 at June 29, 2006 02:46 PMIf Leiberman has to go indie, the message to moderates and indies around the country is that the Dem party is too ideologically left for Leiberman--that the Kos/MoveOn crowd is in charge. Leiberman is enormously respected by the Great Middle of non-aligned voters, the 1/3 of the electorate that decides elections. It would severely undermine any "big tent" claims, and without that, the Dems are fighting uphill in national elections. I doubt if Leiberman's stand on anything would really change as an indie--he's shown over and over again that he's a consistent and principled pol, willing to buck his party when he differed. But he would have ZERO reason for loyalty to the Dems if they forced him out, and that would release him from any obligation to support party-line posturing. I doubt if he'll make that jump. In any case, I've reviewed the existing polling on the race, and I really doubt that Lamont can bridge the gap. It's silly to call a race from polls this far out unless there's an enormous gap, but the polling that shows Lamont closing is VERY small-sample stuff, and the larger polls indicate to me that Lamont is all uphill. My own take on Lamont's odds at this point are 5 to 1 against, and that's taking the current polling at face value. But it's a long time until August 8th. Posted by: Tully at June 29, 2006 03:26 PMOh, Rob, why must you be such a empty-headed partisan? Lieberman should shut up and toe the line? What close-minded nonsense you spew. Oh, and Morris is right about Lieberman's necessity, but wrongly underestimates him. Lieberman's not in nearly as much trouble as some make him out to be. Posted by: Rafique Tucker at June 29, 2006 03:41 PMTully, I don't think he'd change a bit if he went Indie, though he'd be free of of the party whip. Maybe he'd become fodder for a Unity '08 candidacy. 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