Centerfield

LMAO. Scientologists got no sensayuma. Dish it out, can't take it.

Well, duh. Didn't you know that basinging Christians (for fun and profit) is perfectly kosher? It's like a loophole in political correctness. It's always open season on Christians and white guys.

I'll bet $50 that John Travolta makes an apperance in the episode in which the Chef character is killed off.

But Simon, South Park is incredibly ANTI-pc! It compared PETA to a bunch of murderous bestialists, and once took away all the kids to "tolerance camp" where it was just like a Nazi concentration camp. South Park is just plain deliciously irreverent. I actually find it hard to believe that Christians would be offended because their episodes are just so zany -- Saddam Hussein is the devil's lover, the Catholics worship a giant sacred spider -- that it is hard to take seriously. Finally, I think the fact that South Park focuses on religion actually shows a respect, albeit perverse, for it. Why? Because they think religion is important enough to mock. I would imagine that in Europe religion just isn't important enough to mock.

Furthermore, I think a lot of ill comes into the world because people take their metaphysical (or ideological) worldviews too seriously. When Christianity took its worldview very seriously, you had the inquisition and the wars of religion. And look at fundamentalist Islam today.

If you actually believe that someone will suffer ETERNALLY for failing to believe in Jesus, you can justify taking any means necessary to convert someone, for whatever happens here pales in comparison to all of eternity.

I think if one is offended by mockery of one's religion, one really isn't fully spiritually mature. I don't think God, assuming its existence, could be offended by any of the crazy things we might say.

Also, I don't know about you, but when for instance, Dave Chapelle, makes fun of white people, I find it incredibly funny. So humor can actually be a form of love.

Another example. Some of the things Stephen Colbert says about religion, sometimes seemed a little over the top. But it turns out that he's a sincere and practicing Catholic. And then there was a phenomena whereby some evangelicals took a liking to Ned Flanders on the Simpsons.

I really am not impressed at all by some Christians' feigning of victimhood -- I mean, almost everyone in this country either is Christian or was raised Christian (no disrepect intended to those who weren't or aren't). The atheist is the pariah, not the Christian.

So, laugh it up. So in a strange way, contra some of my previous implications, South Park is probably good for our national psyche -- lest we take ourselves too seriously.

Adam,
All that might well hold true if I were a Christian, but I'm not. None-the-less, while I'm not meaning to suggest that it rises to victimhood, it is undeniable that it is considered perfectly acceptable to say things about Christians which it would not be permissable to say about muslims, and it remains possible to say things about men as a group that would get a person fired for saying about women or an ethnic minority.

Incidentally, I hardly think that the PETA thing is a good example of South Park's bombast, since most folks think as much about PETA.

As a black Christian male, I'm sure I could find a lot of things to be offended on South Park, as well as the culture at large. Any one of us could, regardless of race, religion, gender, or creed.

South Park attempts to rise above by making fun of everbody, and they succeed, for the most part. It's still a funny show, even though the cross the line sometimes.

What bothers me about Hayes' response is the selective outrage. He's only mad because HIS religion was mocked.

Oh Simon,

I know you're not a Christian. You're an agnostic who wishes he had the faith to be Christian, or something like that. I just wanted to be particularly thorough in my retort.

it is undeniable that it is considered perfectly acceptable to say things about Christians which it would not be permissable to say about muslims, and it remains possible to say things about men as a group that would get a person fired for saying about women or an ethnic minority.

Have you even watched South Park? Cartman is always spouting off anti-semitic and anti-gay rhetoric. On one episode, Cartman demands that Kyle hand over his "Jew gold," the bag of gold that supposedly all Jews have around their neck. And after much prodding, Kyle really does have that bag of gold! I've seen some mockery of Buddha, and I'm sure there's Muslim mockery to be found.

Incidentally, I hardly think that the PETA thing is a good example of South Park's bombast, since most folks think as much about PETA.

What about my tolerance example? They have many shows where they take serious aim at political correctness of all varieties. For instance, in the "Musuem of Tolerance" we see the tolerant crowd just about to kill the one smoker in the museum. I found it wickedly funny even though I'm anti-smoking.

Seriously, Simon do you get offended when black people or women make fun of white men? I always find it incredibly funny. I mean Dave Chappelle's fake white voice and white hair -- crazy stuff. And actually some of the stuff Dave Chapelle and Carlos Mencia do, actually seems downright racist. They poke fun at their own race.

So, I think we need to careful in what we distinguish here. I too am tired of the always "blame it on the white man" motif, and the constant drumbeat of "love and compassion for everyone except the evil white man, bringer of the male capitalist patriarchy" that sometimes stirs in some subcultures -- when it's actually serious, but humor . . .

I think humor actually can soothe race relations and gender relations.

I just think some people get all crazy about being mocked. I favored the publication of the mohammed cartoons in US newspapers, and I just think people need to lighten up more. If people support the publication of those cartoons, they need to accept mockery of their own religion whole-heartedly. Again, I think mockery can actually be a form of love.

Don't you see what you're supporting as almost a claiming of the PC-mantle for white Christians? I think it is better to get rid of the PC thing altogether, than to universalize its stifling effect.

Rafique,

I completely agree with you. I was more responding to Simon in a broad-brush fashion than I was to you. I will definitely miss Chef, though.

An addendum: my remark about dismantling PC was not that I favor a return of bigotry or something like that. I just think that when society can make fun of each other, we will be closer as a people, whereas PC is almost an artificial maintenance of tolerance, but not true understanding.

If you can't find something in South Park to offend you, you're either completely apathetic or just not paying attention.

Kill off Chef? I don't think so. Replace Hayes voice with another singer with less delicate sensibilities? You betcha.

"Hey chef, you voice sounds funny!"

"It does? Weeeeeeelllllll children, I was attacked by scientologists and now my voice will never be the same. I wrote a song about it. It's called 'Scientologists can kiss my salty chocolate....' "

One of the the things I love best about South Park is thier willingness to poke fun at everyone and everything. They are equal opportunity satirests.... which I think we need alot more of in our society.

Simon's point is well taken in the context of the larger society however. It seems that christians and white males are on the "safe" list for everyone to make fun of (....or examine criticaly).... but dare to point the same spotlight at one of the "protected" groups and it's straight to the stockades for you.

South Park, thank god, doesn't play that way.

Personaly, I think it's hillarious when Chapelle gets up on stage and makes fun of us white guys..... At the same time, I'd like to see a modern day Don Rickles get up on stage and make fun of blacks..... but if one tried he'd be yanked quicker then you could blink.

There's alot of discrimination that happaned in the past against minorities and I'm SURE still happens today....so I understand where the sensitivity comes from. The bottom line though...is if we aren't ALL, as a society, willing to stand up and poke fun of one another...and also frankly and honestly discuss our flaws with one another.... THEN we are ALWAYS going to be a badly divided society. The ONLY way for us to get passed that is for EVERYONE (including groups who have been targets of real discrimination) to grow a thick enough skin to realize that satire...and even serious criticism isn't the equivalent of burning a cross in some-ones yard.

The one thing that I've always found interesting... is just how little the Scientologists have been put in the spotlight either by the MSM or by Hollywood. Frankly, It seems like the MSM and Hollywood (those who aren't Scientologists themselves) are scared s*@#$%less of them.

My impression is that the rule seem to be that white comics and satirists are not allowed to satirize minority groups, but that minority groups are allowed to do so, and to do so in ways that might be either trenchant(Dave Chappelle) or ruthless(Carlos Mencia).

I acknowledge that there's something of a double standard, but so long as black and hispanic satirists are doing a good job of pointing out the foibles of their people and other minorities, I can live with it. In particular, I think it's probably a good thing that black and hispanic comics can have fun with black es and hispanics with stereotypes. These are probably things white comics are well-served to steer clear of...

If Dave Chappelle wants to say " I know how forgetful you
n----ers can be when it comes to paying bills," and get people to laugh, I'm OK leaving that joke to him." Let's face it, there's ample history that makes a white person saying the same thing mean something else.

Yeah, it's the old law of "I can call my brother a jerk, but nobody else better call him a jerk."

Minorities and women make fun of white guys for the same comic reason; a mouse scaring an elephant is funny, but an elephant scaring a mouse is not.