Centerfield

Do we need a third thread to vote for or against civility? :-)

If you ask me, this whole thing has me worn out. I'm just glad its over. Uncivil folks of both the Right and the Left have made this into a circus. The filbuster was doomed to fail- the Gang of 14 was in place, and four Dems had already pledged to vote for Alito.

Frankly, a filibuster would've been bad form, despite Kerry's pronouncements. Anyw3ay, I'm just glad it's over.

Vote #1: Redstate and conservatives
Vote #2: For civility

You have outlined one of the reasons that keeps me leaning to the right... The fact that the left is so often loose with their language lends credibility to the argument that liberalism is little more than a fashion statement and those who call themself liberal in a sense don't believe the crap that comes out of their mouth... Sort of reminds you of thoughtless sixth graders trying to out-cool one another on the play ground... Which one can bash Republicans using the most profanity. At least the sixth graders have reckless youth as an excuse.

The right has its share of idiots, but I am saying it, the left is much worse. The fact that Kos himself encourages such assinine banter says something about the man as well as his ambition.

Actually, I'd have to say it's about equal, as far as partisan idiocy goes. The thing is, the moonbats took over the ship over at Kos, more than they usually do, I mean.

Also important, something which I think undermines Rafique's point, is that people of stature in the Democratic Party have recently taken to posting directly on dKos. Both Senator Kerry and Senator Kennedy have recently signed up posted. They will be easily tarred by future opponents for condoning the Kossacks' rhetoric and style.

The passions attached to the Alito vote will blow over as the next big controversy steps up.

But boy, when the SCOTUS takes its first hard right turn on a popular issue that will become a defining moment for American voter loyalty.

I wish Centrists were better organized to take an increasingly prominent role as the adult supervision of the Congress.

I started reading blogs in early 2004. I read Kos when I was researching for the election. What I saw there influenced me to vote against Kerry. You are judged by the company you keep.

Well, Pat, if I want my kids to grow up to be like Winston S. Churchill, who said "In Victory, Magnamity. In Defeat, Defiance." then I'll tell them read Kos. They do the latter half of the equation far better than Redstate does the first.

I don't mind definance and sticking to principles, Jean... it's the insanely personal, frothing-at-the-mouth attacks against anyone remotely conservative that worries me about the Kos Kids. A few, just a few, rational arguments would go a long, long way. Oh, well... at least they deleted the post which referred to Maine's two Senators with the "c" word.

Perhaps I should have some sympathy... Mark Twain said: "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." Given how bad they lost today, I guess they need all the relief they can get. Or Henry Haskins: "Many a man's profanity has saved him from a nervous breakdown."

But in the end, for purposes of political debate and discussion, I remain a proponent of the father of our country, George Washington, who said: "The foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing is a vice so mean and low that every person of sense and character detests and despises it."

My experience is that gracious winners are common, and gracious losers quite rare. When the stakes are high and the issues contentious, this is only amplified.

I'm with Mark Twain on profanity, and here's the thing. I'm far more troubled by unreasonable content from complainers than profane content that makes a fair point. If you have a good point to make and you throw in an f-bomb while making it, I'm not even going to blink. But if you unleash a wild and unfair criticism that fails to account for the constellation of relevant facts, I'm prone to dismiss it whether or not you use only the King's English or stick to the Marquis de Queensbury rules.

You won't find an Alito thread at LGF because they've gone all-GreatJihadiConspiracy(tm) all the time. :-)

As for you, Brian, all I have to say is that you should take your theory and [bleep] your [bleepity-bleep]ing [bleep][bleep][bleep] with it until they [bleep][bleep] and [bleep]!

Just kidding. As my late grandfather used to say, those who substitute profanity for profundity and proper punctuation persuade no one but themselves.

Well, civility and the internet was laid to rest back in the 90's. So the responses over at DailyKos were of no surprise to me. Granted, it looks like "Mutiny on the Bounty" over there.

Youth has a lot to do with that too. I had my own wingnut days when I was young. The world was black and white then.

I really think that the right does a better job connecting with average American. Of course, the current power structure shows that. Must people I know get a negative reaction to the "in your face" action that seems to be prevalent on the left moreso then the right. The right seems to have a working strategy of letting the left get out there, rant and rave while they sit next the average person in the stand and just give them a light elbow to the side while saying, "they are a bunch of loons." Average person nods and chuckles with the right at the left rants on.

The left loses on a basic tenant. One that Ronald Reagan used very well with "Morning in America." The voters want to hear good things for them, about them and about the country. Running on a platform of "the other guys suck" is not going to be a long term path to victory. A positive vision is needed to win the vast majority and until the left can develop a positive vision to follow, I suspect they will find themselves becoming even more bitter. Reading the DailyKos makes my think they are going to consume themselves in their own hatred.

I think there are a few things that tend to contribute to the vitriol on the left: (1) youth;
(2)being out of power; and (3) anti-traditionalism. I suspect that a lot of the liberal/left on the internet are younger, have little experience dealing with people not like themselves; and are very bitter about the country seeming to reject them. I also think there is sort of a Hunter Thompson gonzoesque quality to them, where they think they are showing their alienation through intemperate language. In some ways. they are like the right-wing in the 60s (eg, the John Birch Society) that went completely off the deep end.

I also think that, starting with the New Left in the 60s, the idea developed that traditional politics--ie, compromise, making alliances, etc.--was illegitimate and unprincipled. Most of these people aren't really that radical, but much of what they do and say is counterproductive. That's not necessarily true of Kos who wants to win at any cost, but a lot of them would rather go down in flames than compromise. Politics is more a personal catharsis than a utilitarian function. Although there are plenty of conservative whackos like this too, conservatives tend to be more satisfied with society and more pragmatic about accomplishing stuff.

At any rate, I don't go to these places--right or left--any more. It's too unpleasant. Rick actually tries to reason with these people--I find that admirable but I don't have the stomach for it.

Can we just agree that the extreme right and left both engage in useless, tasteless, mindless, insulting and ultimately boring drivel without trying to determine which does it more often or with more vigor? Does it matter whether I would prefer having my kneecaps smashed with a golf club to having my kneecaps smashed with a baseball bat?

Jim M... you're absolutely right, on all counts.

Profanity in and of itself is certainly not the problem. But profanity is really not needed very often to make a good, strong, rational argument. If dKos was full of rational debate with a few cuss words thrown in, it would be one thing. But the cussing is almost all it has to offer.

The pot-bangers should realize that the symbol they are projecting to the rest of the country is that they have no compelling ideas to offer, so their only hope is to out-shout their opponents. There's an old legal adage: When the facts are against you, argue the law. When the law is against you, argue the facts. When the facts and the law are against you, yell loud and pound on the table.

I spend quite a bit of time on liberal blogs - and I'll admit that they become vitriolic and obscene very often. All-in-all, I find more real content on the liberal blogs as compared to the conservative ones but also more childishness and right out filth.

George, when you say "real content", what are you referring to? More substantive facts, more argument, or what?

I don't mind definance and sticking to principles, Jean... it's the insanely personal, frothing-at-the-mouth attacks against anyone remotely conservative that worries me about the Kos Kids.

As Mark Twain used to say "When angry, count ten. When very angry, swear."

Well, Pat, the Kos commenters were very angry, and they had good reason to be so. What's Coulter's excuse?

CPD. Well, heck, the thread just invites it.

I suppose I could insert my stock sermon on why the wing blogs contain little in the way of actual thought and much in the way knee-jerkery.

But would anyone hear that tree falling?

Probably not the tree falling, Tully, but somebody may hear it when it hits the ground. ;-)

(Sorry; that was my standard smart-ass answer when that came up during the inevitable college debate, and I couldn't resist trotting it out. I'm weak, so sue me.)

Speaking of smart-asses, (to coin a pun) I'm in agreement with Ed Kilgore. Venting is fine, but work is essential.

LOL

PatHMV:
By content: A couple of excellent blog conversations regarding Iran and its military strength. Experts from many directions contributed. Another one centered upon the telephone billing questions - where it was disclosed that 90% of billing is done in Israel, to name a couple. Another memorable conversation centered on the Sunburst missile that Iran possesses. There seem to be many liberal minded individuals lurking out there that only dart in when the conversation is civil and of substance. But eventually many sink into Bushco bashing, profanity and (if late enough) recipe exchange.

George... next time, send some of those closet substantive liberals over this way, would you? They sound like the type of people we need contributing here.

Jean... Coulter's just whacko.