A Weblog of Centrist Voices in American Politics
|
|
|
A Weblog of Centrist Voices in American Politics | |
|
July 26, 2005Cosby RepublicansBooker Rising has an excellent post with advice for the GOP on how to recruit Cosby Republicans from what it calls "old-school blacks" who might be tempted to leave the Democratic Party for a renewed Moderate Republicanism.
Posted by rickheller at July 26, 2005 12:54 PM Comments
I think Booker Rising is one of the best blogs around. It's the only one of the blogs linked here that I read much anymore. Here is the meat of the article, which specifies what issues these voters care about: "In conversations with old-school black folks and looking at the Pew Research Center data, these positions seem to grab at the Cosby Republicans:Posted by: Susan at July 26, 2005 01:57 PM As long as we're plugging African-American blogs, let me second BOOKER RISING as one of the finest and most thoughtful around, and throw in Angela Winter's A-A centrist blog POLITOPICS as well. Both highly recommended. Posted by: Tully at July 26, 2005 02:37 PM[O]pposition to gay marriage: they believe it threatens the already fragile black marriage rate. Exactly how will gay marriage threaten the black marriage rate? How can people honestly make a case that gay marriage will bring down marriage rates? I think hetero's have done a pretty damn good job of divorcing each other...seems as if that might be a bigger threat to marriage. Don't ya think? They also view attempts by (overwhelmingly white) gay activists to link the issue to the Civil Rights Movement as almost blasphemous, racially arrogant, and leeching off black folks' hard work. Oops, sorry! Forgot that a single group has a monopoly on civil rights. I suppose the next thing we'll be hearing is that Hispanics have no right to claim racial discrimination. The truth is that because blacks have suffered many inequities throughout our history, they are often glossed over as incapable of harboring intolerance to others... Just ask a gay black man how he is accepted in the black community. Ask blacks what they think of Hispanics.
Darius, why are you asking us? I'm pretty sure that the point being made here is that the description is a fairly accurate one of how this group feels. No one is saying they are necessarily right to feel this way. If you really want an answer, you have to ask the black community. Posted by: bk at July 26, 2005 03:10 PMThis certainly provides a concrete example of the forgotten-half in centrism: fiscally liberal/socially conservative moderates. In the social category, I feel conservatives value virtue, while liberals favor freedom. One way to harmonize the two is to permit government to foster "virtue" but not legislate it. When, I say "virtue," I mean things necessary for the optimal functioning of a democratic society: honesty, integrity, self-restraint, hard work, etc. If we were able to aid parents in controlling what their children are exposed to and perhaps support character education in schools, we could meet some of the desires of "Cosby Republicans" without becoming pro-life or anti-gay marriage. On the fiscal side, I think the more wonkish among us could figure out ways to intelligently aid "income mobility" among the less fortunate. As for affirmative action, I tend to think we ought to favor all from disadvantaged backgrounds if we're going to favor anyone at all. Why help the affluent african american but ignore the poor white kid? But I'm a white guy, so what do I know? :) Posted by: Adam at July 26, 2005 03:11 PMSorry, BK, they were meant to be interpreted as rhetorical questions. My bad. Posted by: Darius at July 26, 2005 03:52 PMDarius - If you go to the post at Booker Rising, you will see that in addition to the "fragility of marriage" argument, there also is expressed the resentment of the white gay community comparing the gay marriage issue to the classic Civil Rights struggle. It pisses off the folks that Booker Rising is talking about (if I were in that group, it would piss me off, too). As I read through the list, I thought that some or all of the Republicans are there already. However, the Republicans are apparently not communicating these positions effectively. Since the Republicans have proven over the last thirty years that they are no dummies, I expect the communication to improve. Posted by: Literally Retarded at July 26, 2005 04:04 PMWARNING POLITICALLY INCORRECT QUESTION AHEAD! As long as we're plugging African-American blogs, let me second BOOKER RISING as one of the finest and most thoughtful around, and throw in Angela Winter's A-A centrist blog POLITOPICS as well. Both highly recommended.I would second that motion that these are two excellent blogs. I do however notice that they get very few responses to their posts. Are black folks visiting their blogs or is it just us white folks. Is blogging a "white thing"? Posted by: c3 at July 26, 2005 04:12 PM Why do the Republicans need to bother with blacks anyway considering that they might well be a shriking minority? They are better off making concessions with the pro immigrant block and begint o attract more "hispanics" are they are more often than blacks to be socially conservative and patriotic. I am suspicious about the Repubs wanting to court black votes. Believe it or not, I believe it has alot to do with foreign than domestic party. I'll let you guys take a few stabs at what I am getting at. BTW cool site. Posted by: Triple A at July 26, 2005 04:22 PMSorry guys, thats foreign than domestic politics... Posted by: Tripe A at July 26, 2005 04:24 PMI'll hazard an unqualified guess c3. I would guess that Booker Rising is somewhat countercultural, and like centerfield is trying to tap into a yet formally recognized class which might contribute to the low response. But are they really that low--some of the blogs on our blogroll don't get a lot of responses either? As to blogging being a white thing, a black friend of mine who works at a school related to me that frequently if a black child is good at math or pursues intellectual matters their peers tell them to, "Quit acting white!" which is pretty bad. As Booker rising, and political blogging in general, has an intellectual flavor, maybe that could account for some of it to. "hispanics" are...more often than blacks to be socially conservative and patriotic. Whoa! Care to clarify the latter part of that statement? (Giving you the benefit of the doubt here.) Posted by: AR at July 26, 2005 04:32 PMBooker Rising has about the same traffic stats we do. Politopics is considerably less right now, but she's moved servers and URL lately. Posted by: Tully at July 26, 2005 04:33 PMSo basically Cosby Republicans are economically liberal and socially conservative? I don't think that would fit too well with what I see as the future ideology of the country: economic conservatism and social libertarianism. I do think Cosby and likeminded members of the minority community are extremely out of place in the elitist Left of today. I just don't know if there's a better fit out there for them. Perhaps they will become the new swing voters at some point. Posted by: DM at July 26, 2005 05:03 PMSusan I think Booker Rising is a typical conservative blog except by a black women. THere isnt anything there thats new or exciting about what is being said there. Posted by: Tripe A at July 26, 2005 05:20 PMI also have to take issue with this statement from the blog, "...are turned off by "blacks are victims" rhetoric: they believe racism exists and will rant against it, but don't buy that it dominates as it did in the 1950s..." Considering that while black conservatives reject the idea of the "white man" is keeping the black man down, they have no problem with blaming the "liberal white man" for forcing blacks to listen to rap, take advantage of government services, ebonics, and the break up of black families. "hispanics" are...more often than blacks to be socially conservative and patriotic. AR, Two words one institution, the Catholic Church. I asked you to clarify the latter part of the statement which seemed to state that Hispanics were more patriotic than Blacks. It seems like a totally out of line statement to me, and I'm curious as to what facts you have to back it up. As far as I've been able to tell, Catholics are no more patriotic that AME's or Baptists. Booker Rising is great because Shay (who runs the site) has a great eye for the best posts and columns being written by centrists, conservatives and libertarians. She's also very good at excerpting those posts and columns to get at their meat. Shay herself doesn't write many lengthy posts but, when she does, it's always well thought out. The site has a black focus but it is not exclusively black and Shay has no problem posting opinions she disagrees with. Thus the site stays vibrant. It's really a model for what blogging can be. Part aggregator, part forum, all focused on debate. It's one of the few blogs I visit daily. Posted by: Alan at July 26, 2005 09:44 PMSeveral points. Although I can understand Brian's sentiment, I am thankful for Darius's critique of one the Cosby Republicans' planks because it offers a criticism that I wouldn't be able to offer. (I assume he's black because he says "our" history.) To take a different tack though, although I have no idea whether black Americans are less patriotic, I certainly could forgive them if they were and could understand if they were more cynical concerning our nation's "greatness." Although it is obvious if you think about it, I never before fully put my mind in the standpoint of black Americans. From their perspective, despite the best efforts of Jefferson, Adams, and Franklin our founders made a devil's bargain from the founding of our country. They traded their freedom to ensure that the southern states would join. Then it took 100 years before we did anything about it. Then we allowed the passage of onerous laws. And it wasn't until the 60's till the situation was remedied. Even today, they have a significantly greater share of poverty and incarceration. From my perspective, I've always been so proud that finally after millenia of despotism, America was founded in a bold experiment by Enlightenment scholars to ressurect democracy. The oldest democracy. I always beamed with pride about how cool our founders were and how I was happy that my ancestors were able to escape from Europe, travel to the new world, and settle in the land of opportunity, land of freedom, land of adventure. Obviously, for black Americans the perspective would be quite different. America was more a land where they had to fight tooth and nail to get those same freedoms. Recently, I learned of a social psychology experiment in which they had black college students perform a task and an experimenter would then evalute their performance. If they thought they were not seen, their self-esteem would increase upon a positive score and decrease upon a negative one. However, if they thought they were seen and the evaluator was white, if they were favorably evaluated their self-esteem would fall because, "They're just being nice to me because I'm black." If negatively evalutated, "They just don't like me because I'm black," and their self-esteem (slightly)increased. I read this in a recent social psychology text, and usually psychologists are pretty liberal, so I interpreted this to mean blacks' thinking is screwed up both by "guilty liberals" and true racists. (I don't have a link but the study is Crocker, J. & Luhaten, R. (1990). Collective Self-Esteem and Ingroup Bias. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 58, 60-67. Here's a link to the first author's homepage which provided links to more current papers. home page) It makes me think that rather than "helping" blacks via affirmative action, we ought to help fight poverty and improve education among all those in disadvantaged situations. That would get at the root of a real societal problem, would affect a fair number of minorities because of their disproportionate representation in lower socioeconomic groups, all without implying that "black people need the help of white people to succeed." I guess that's one reason I like Booker Rising because she opposes affirmative action in her platform in addition to it being an entertaining read and a fresh perspective. I don't know the other side of this issue, and I'm biased not only because I'm white but because a good black friend of mine feels the same way. Posted by: Adam at July 27, 2005 01:26 AMAmen on the Booker-kudos. Posted by: Jon Kay at July 27, 2005 07:19 AMa black friend of mine who works at a school related to me that frequently if a black child is good at math or pursues intellectual matters their peers tell them to, "Quit acting white!" which is pretty badIf that's accurate, then that's just incredibly depressing to read, and very, very saddening. There's a book out recently by Thomas Sowell which argues that modern urban black culture - is essentially a variation of redneck culture, which agressively rejects formal learning. I don't agree with Sowell insofar as I don't think it's a black thing - call it "hip hop culture", because it is equally fetishized by blacks and whites - but I agree that it is a contemptable attempt to defraud a generation of their full potential, by locking them into a self-perpetuating cycle of violence, drugs, irresponsibility and social disconnection. Posted by: Simon at July 27, 2005 10:51 AM a variation of redneck culture, which agressively rejects formal learning. Ain't know rednecks diskerijin learnin' roun' hear. We thaink itz cowl wen are peepl git sum book lernin'. In faqt, Bobi Sue's boy Jimma juz lernd how to rite last monf and he did it in da forth grade...took me all the waye til I finnishd skool in da sevenf grade to lern how to do that! Posted by: AR at July 27, 2005 11:22 AMFor my anecdotal two cents, I went to a high school in New Jersey that was nearly half black. There was definitely an attitude among the black kids that it wasn't cool to be academically oriented. This was in the beginning of the hip-hop era (early to mid eighties), but I don't think it was anything new. A black co-worker of mine, who is probably in his late forties to early fifties and who went to high school in the Los Angeles area, related a story to a group of students at a career day event we held that he had gotten a lot of flack from other black kids for being studious in high school. That was on the other side of the country and well before hip-hop. Take those anecdotes for whatever you think they are worth, but I don't have much doubt in the existence of the cultural phenomenon we're disussing. Posted by: WHQ at July 27, 2005 12:23 PMI think this phenomenon has been around for quite some time, and has affected whites, blacks, latinos, and possibly some others. I remember reading about GM's new assembly plant built in the early '70s to counteract the quality of Japanese imports. This was in Lordstown, OH, and was used to assemble Vegas (just showing that poor design can ruin any plans). Car and Driver magazine, I think, went up to interview plant workers in this new-age plant designed around workers' needs. The interviewer noticed a fair number of cars were going through the line missing important sub-assemblies, and asked a worker about it. His response: "Bust my ass for Chevy? Man, I don't even bust my ass for myself." This was a white guy, as it happens. There are folks like this in every culture, and the success (or failure) of their peers has little to do with the attitude. Posted by: Literally Retarded at July 27, 2005 02:42 PMDARIUS: Exactly how will gay marriage threaten the black marriage rate? How can people honestly make a case that gay marriage will bring down marriage rates? I think hetero's have done a pretty damn good job of divorcing each other...seems as if that might be a bigger threat to marriage. Don't ya think? That is not my personal position (I support gay marriage). However, it is a common sentiment among old-school black folks. And this group believes that gay rights should be argued on its own (a position where I do agree with the old-schoolers...even I can't stand the comparisons) and not constantly compared to black history. Old-schoolers believe that race is genetic and public, while sexual orientation is by choice and can easily be hidden. C3: I would second that motion that these are two excellent blogs. I do however notice that they get very few responses to their posts. Are black folks visiting their blogs or is it just us white folks. Is blogging a "white thing"? Speaking solely for Booker Rising, the comments section is quite lively. We are rated a middlle-traffic blog by Truth Laid Bear. There is barely a post that doesn't get a response, although many folks comments in the evening after they get home from work. And traffic has spiked up since the Cosby Republican piece. From what I can tell, most of my commentators are black (and quite a few black liberals and black lefists join the debate). TRIPLE A: Why do the Republicans need to bother with blacks anyway considering that they might well be a shriking minority? They are better off making concessions with the pro immigrant block and begint o attract more "hispanics" are they are more often than blacks to be socially conservative and patriotic. As mentioned in the first paragraph in the piece, blacks remain the largest minority group in terms of voters. This is because Hispanics have a sizeable illegal immigration issue, and their voting rates elsewhere are lower than than for blacks. Also, it is blacks who are a sizeable voter base in more swing states than are Hispanics, where a few percentage points increase in black support can help the GOP. By the way, only 10% of blacks are foreign-born and their voting trends are similar to that of native blacks. TRIPLE A: Susan I think Booker Rising is a typical conservative blog except by a black women. THere isnt anything there thats new or exciting about what is being said there. Actually, most of our posts are moderate and we mostly link to other moderate posts. Read closer, but that is your choice. Posted by: shay at July 27, 2005 03:04 PMFrom what I can tell, most of my commentators are black (and quite a few black liberals and black lefists join the debate). "From what I can tell..." Yep. Gotta depend on the poster to be honest, and want to identify their ethnicity. It's the blogosphere, after all! Posted by: Tully at July 27, 2005 03:50 PMAR I believe the Catholic Church is an institution that intills conformity and group cohesiion more so than the egalitarian protestant denominations. There are always exceptions. Posted by: Triple A at July 28, 2005 09:55 PMWHQ, I think hip hop music has done the opposite (promoting education) especially when you consider how popular groups like Public Enemy KRS-One and other social minded rap groups are amoung hip hop audiences. Gansta rap isnt really conducive to academic achievement but it certainly doesnt stop the millions of Japanese kids who listen to it. After all its just entertainment. Posted by: Triple A at July 28, 2005 10:01 PMAR I believe the Catholic Church is an institution that intills conformity and group cohesiion more so than the egalitarian protestant denominations. There are always exceptions. Triple, once again you have sidestepped the question. I did not ask you about the Catholic Church. I asked you specifically to explain your earlier comment that "Hispanics...were more patriotic than blacks." To me, it seemed to be a rather offensive remark, which is why I asked you to clarify. Obviously, getting you to do just that is just not going to happen. Triple A, One of my points was that I didn't think hip-hop culture was responsible for academic distain because the distain predated hip-hop. But I don't necessarily agree that hip-hop has helped the situation, either. While PE, BDP and others may have reached some people with their worthwhile messages, most (at least popular) hip-hop since the late eighties has been fairly amoral. I still don't think it's a cause, but perhaps more of a symptom of cultural attitudes. And that academically oriented (no pun intended) Japanese kids like the music, dance and dress has little to do with the hip-hop's significance in black (or otherwise) America. Posted by: WHQ at July 29, 2005 10:19 AM"Considering that while black conservatives reject the idea of the "white man" is keeping the black man down, they have no problem with blaming the "liberal white man" for forcing blacks to listen to rap, take advantage of government services, ebonics, and the break up of black families." The first time I read that sentence I didn't catch what you were saying... but I can now. The black conservatives are basically saying that 'racism' isn't the problem that is keeping blacks down, it is a learned culture that began with the liberal social experiments of the 1950's and 1960's. Is there anybody here that thinks that Ebonics is going to help blacks achieve 'success' in the business world????? Will it help them achieve any kind of success???? That is like continuing to teach immigrants in their natural language instead of teaching them English and insisting that they become proficient at it.... it seperates them from the mainstream (business and socially) and keeps them on a lower playing field, it almost guarantees them less economic success. Why are we deliberately doing this???? Posted by: debsay at July 29, 2005 04:17 PMI think there is still some misinformation around regarding Ebonics. No one intends to teach Ebonics in schools. The intent was to secure funding that is reserved for those who speak a language other than English at home, on the basis that kids who spoke Ebonics were at as much as a disadvantage as those who spoke other non-English languages. (That point is arguable, but it's another conversation.) Along with securing funding is the acknowledgement that standard English needs to be taught to Ebonics speakers from their point of view. Ebonics does have its own consistent sets of rules and grammar, so presentations of standard English rules and grammar can better be understood if contrasted with those of Ebonics rather than on their own "in a vacuum." (That, too, is arguable...) Regardless of your agreement or disagreement with the above assertions, the point stands that, at least to my knowledge, "Ebonics 101" was never intended to be on school curriculums. Posted by: WHQ at July 30, 2005 09:37 AM |
Archives
March 2006
February 2006 January 2006 December 2005 November 2005 October 2005 September 2005 August 2005 July 2005 June 2005 May 2005 April 2005 March 2005 February 2005 January 2005 December 2004 November 2004 October 2004 September 2004 August 2004 July 2004 June 2004 May 2004 April 2004 March 2004 February 2004 January 2004 December 2003 November 2003 October 2003 September 2003 August 2003 July 2003 June 2003 May 2003 April 2003
Recent Entries
Dubai Out
Why So Long Between Democracies? Round One, Centrism Rock Lobster? Blackwell Releases "Worst-Treated" List "IRV" used in Burl., VT for mayor election. Great idea! Random Thread Election 2006: Round One A Proper Multiculturalism Bush proposes line item veto act - what's changed?
|
