Centerfield

William,

I just shuddered. If you ever want to hear stories about Pensacola Christian College, let me know. I spent three years there. Basically, everything you probably heard is true.

Wow. Didn't realize you spent some time down there. Are you from the area?

I grew up in the Oakfield Acres neighborhood, next to Woodham High School, which is just down the road from Pensacola Christian College. That's why we went to the barber shop next door.

I'm not from the area...from North Central Florida originally. But, I did attend college there for three years, and then worked for a company several years later that required a lot of Pensacola trips. So, I'm pretty familiar with the area. Funny that it's such a small world.

When I got booted a number of years ago (alchohol posession...students were not allowed to "partake" of Jesus juice), I batted around a couple of ideas about getting the real story out about the place, but I never pursued it. I was; however, overjoyed to see that the IRS finally caught wind of their activites in the late '90's and forced them to pay up. I finally started a book on my experiences about a year ago entitled "Instruction in Righteousness." It was kind of modeled on Pat Conroy's "Lords of Discipline." I'll finish it someday in all of my free time.

For the Episcopal Church to be considered 'center', a group or demonination would need to be defined as to the left of it. To the fundamentals, these churches are as left as they come.

I'm really not sure how to place them on the left/center/right scale. Clearly, though, the Unitarians would be to their left. Also the Metropolitan Community Church.

William;
Couldn't read the Danforth piece at work. Look forward to it at home. I've always admired Danforth's ability to balance his faith and his political life. Unfortunately that sort of balance doesn't get a lot of press.

The "trick" is to discern the connnection, if any, between the "legitamite" side and the "ugly" side of the evangelicals. Unfortunately the press too often assumes a connection. And unfortunately, the "legitimate" side is at times not vocal enough in disavowing the "ugly" side.

One final note, the "center" of the Christian churches may not correlate with the "moral" center of the public at large that I previously alluded to. That's neither good nor bad.

I consider Episcopalians (of which I am one) to be "center to moderately progressive." In light of the continued turmoil over Bishop Robinson, I don't think you can truly label us "liberal."

Believe it or not, "fundamentalist" Xian churches go all over the map in terms of politics--we just hear about the fire-and-brimstone ones the most. All depends on which parts of the Bible they emphasize. Straight "Gospel-based" denominations and free churches tend towards the socially liberal. Paulist-emphasis and "apostolic succession" types (Anglican, Episcopal, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox) tend towards the middle, then trending back towards more conservative depending on the entrenchment of the power structure of the church itself, and the "distance" to the pontiff. Old Testamenters lean heavily towards the conservative. (Revelationists tend towards the incoherently fruitcake.)

The "trick" is to discern the connnection, if any, between the "legitamite" side and the "ugly" side of the evangelicals. Unfortunately the press too often assumes a connection. And unfortunately, the "legitimate" side is at times not vocal enough in disavowing the "ugly" side.

Yeah, I think the "ugly" side is a very small subculture within a much larger community. In Pensacola, they were perhaps bolder and more organized than elsewhere -- the two shooters were associated with Rescue America, and the local leaders of that group were actually vocal proponents of killing doctors. One tried to take out a newspaper ad advocating it, and one appeared on Nightline after the first shooting. The guy who appeared on Nightline -- Paul Hill -- ultimately became the second shooter.

I don't think other local evangelicals agree with them, but, on the other hand, I suspect they do feel more comfortable in the context of a large community of evangelicals.

Frankly, I think the outer edge of the "legitimate" side is a little scary. Check out this exchange of emails about the Brownsville Revival.

William,

What's that guy's name that ran the Pensacola Bible College? I can't remember if that was the exact name of the school or not, but they used to stand (in suits) when you exited I-110 onto Brent Lane. They would be holding their Bibles in the airs and yelling that we were headed towards "eternal damnation." They always were such a friendly bunch.

Amusing side note: The home of the guy that led that particular movement was in the middle of PCC property on Rawson Lane. They had bought every piece of property around him, but he refused to sell, and used to post signs in his yard that we were all going to hell. Lol. The memories!

I know this should go under Tully's previous "disliked phrase" thread but Abel you just reminded me. "Progressive". Does that mean that everyone else is "regressive"?

I'm not picking a fight I just don't like the phrase.

Chris,

You are right. It certainly wasn't meant to offend. I wasn't decreeing in the "one and only" way. I meant "progressive" in the sense of slightly more "liberal."

I went to a Baptist church a while back who sent a lot of their kids to PCC. What I heard the PCC kids describe the place made it arch-conservative even by evangelical standards. Not enough to take the Culture War literally and start shooting liberals, mind you, but it was pretty hard-core.

The interesting thing is that the PCC kids were clueless about Brownsville. I ran in both Baptist and Pentecostal circles, but Baptists don't generally hear about Pentecostal stuff.

I've also been to a Brownsville service, well after I went to that Baptist church. That Orlando Sentinal article that Mr. Swann linked to gives a decent, albeit a bit jaded, description of Brownsville. However, that's merely a kicked-up-a-notch Pentecostal service, which is not atypical of a good chunk of that corner of evangelicaldom.

That being said, your clinic-shooters are the far fringe of the evangelical right, 0.5% rather than 10%.

Ah yes, I remember Danforth from my Missouri days. I was angry about his sponsorship of Clarence Thomas, but to my mind, he redeemed himself with his investigative work at Waco. I wish he had been in charge of the whole Clinton investigation instead of Starr. It might have ended the same way, but I'll bet it would have been far less rancorous on both sides.