A Weblog of Centrist Voices in American Politics
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A Weblog of Centrist Voices in American Politics | |
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May 13, 2005Not Home On The RangeMore discouraging words for moderate Republicans. Posted by rickheller at May 13, 2005 12:08 AM Comments
It seems that the moderate side of the party is losing steam, even notwithstanding what Olympia correctly identifies as the key point: that the majority is in the middle. What is most sorely needed is for leadership, for someone within the moderate ranks of the GOP to become a lightning rod around which dissenters may coalesce and co-ordinate. ~Simon Centrists have always had a tough row to hoe, but these past couple of months really have been pretty ridiculous. Rick, you're right, it is rather discouraging - but at the same time, the Senate centrists have got to step up now. The moderate majority needs their leadership. Watching George Voinovich yesterday was thrilling - it reminded me of how I felt when McCain spoke out against the Falwell/Robertson gang in 2000. That was courage right there, and we need more of it. Simon, you're right - we need someone to rally around. And we have to keep letting our centrists know they're not alone. We may not be as loud (yet) as those on the fringes, but somehow we've got to keep making our voices heard so that the centrists know we've got their backs. Don't get discouraged, my friends. Get energized. Let's keep at it, and let's win these fights. Nuclear option first, then Bolton - that'll make them sit up and take notice that we're not going to be pushed around anymore. That day is past. - JBD (Charging RINO) You 'Centrists' sound just like the Democrats who are howling about the working class voting Republican ("against their interests"). Could there be a very good reason that there are not enough "moderate" Republicans to have a good lunch meeting in Washington? Democrats need to understand why they don't understand; and so do you. Carping about the 45% being ignorant or misguided makes you look as silly as the Democrats. If you want political power, you had better figure out what that 45% wants. Hint: At least half of them don't want liberals in office whether or not they are secular. Posted by: Notherbob2 at May 13, 2005 11:03 AMPeople keep talking about how Bush is really a moderate. Yet things keep happening that strengthen the far right. For example, see the story about the chaplain being fired at the Air Force Academy, apparently because she complained about fundamentalist proselytizing. http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Academy-Religion.html? Sure, it's not something President Bush was involved in, but do you think the Academy would tolerate this kind of crap under, say, Bill Clinton? I'm tired of Bush giving tired bromides about how everyone is an American--even atheists--when the actions of his Administration make it clear that they don't believe that. And I'm sick of the right-wing trying to make this, not just a de facto Christian country, but a de jure Christian country. I'm tired of the stupidity and ignorance coming from these people (see Kansas). And they all think they have a friend in the White House. I hope, as Andrew Sullivan suggests, that the GOP is becoming divided over the fundamentalists. But at this point, you are going to have to show me that moderates have any real role in the GOP other than for show. Posted by: MWS at May 13, 2005 11:12 AMI'm tired of the stupidity and ignorance coming from these people (see Kansas). I'm stupid and ignorant, Marc? Posted by: Tully at May 13, 2005 11:38 AMCould there be a very good reason that there are not enough "moderate" Republicans to have a good lunch meeting in Washington?I get the sense that the perceptions of what Americans believe or want or think are pretty distorted on both the right and left. Those perceptions come, in part, from hanging around a lot of like-minded people and being involved in large political communities that seem like they must represent a substantial piece of middle America. You have to consider, first, the nature of our democratic system. Most foreign democracies use proportional representation -- a system that is very good at representing public opinion. If 1% of your voting public is libertarian, they're likely to get seats in the legislature under proportional representation. It's very representative of what people think, but also quite unstable, as we're finding out today in Iraq. It's hard to form a majority government in such a fractured and granular system. We use the polar opposite form of democracy -- a single member district system that is much more stable, but less representative. Add to that our historical use of gerrymandering, which has accelerated recently with the advent of sophisticated district-drawing software. Very few democracies allow politicians the kind of control over drawing their own districts that our system allows. The result are ideologically concentrated districts that produce Democrats who are more liberal than the average Democrat and Republicans who are more conservative than the average Republican. Take a look at how many current members of Congress receive near 100% ratings from liberal and conservative interest groups. We have a mass of down-the-line ideological voters in our legislature, a point of view that is far less common in the public at large. I suspect middle America thinks an awful lot like Olympia Snowe, and would feel a real comfort level with her as their leader that they don't quite feel with the likes of Kerry, Bush, Gore, or the other usual suspects. Sen. Snowe has that certain centrist style most Americans would find refreshing -- dedication, a careful approach to policy, professionalism, civility, respect. She also has the substance -- leaning to the left on social policy, but to the right on fiscal and foreign policy. That's a combination that's going to resonate well -- a sense of inclusiveness combined with growth-oriented economics and a tough approach to security. By the way, if you doubt that a liberal lean on social policy fits well with middle America, you might have been encouraged by a recent thread here on Centerfield about a public opinion poll showing Americans leaning pro-life. But you might also take a peek at the whole collection of recent polls compiled at pollingreport.com. On the whole, I think they suggest that Americans still lean pro-choice. Posted by: William Swann at May 13, 2005 01:49 PMTully, I certainly DID NOT mean to call you stupid and ignorant. I apologize profusely if that's how you took my comment. I meant the stuff coming from the intelligent design controversy, which happens to be emanating from Kansas right now. What I actually meant to say was that I was tired of the scientifically illiterate crap that is being peddled by the religious fundamentalists in place of actual thought, of ministers calling evolution "non-scientific", etc. I'm tired of the fundamentalists using ignorance as an excuse for close-mindedness and intolerance of ideas. I'm tired of the sophistry being used by these people to make religion seem like science and science seem like hokum. And I'm especially tired of a party in which this kind of thinking is de rigeur. I hope to God that Olympia Snowe represents a significant element of the Republican Party. Posted by: MWS at May 13, 2005 02:36 PMI get the sense that the perceptions of what Americans believe or want or think are pretty distorted whether you are right, left, center or me. Let's face it, EVERYONE thinks they have thier finger on the pulse of what the "average american" really wants....and EVERYONE (including me) is pretty much wrong. We ALL tend to project our own views unto our society. The best measure (IMO) of what Americans really believe or want is who they tend to elect to office. That may well be at odds with what people say they want (polls).....and it may be even heavly skewed by the fact that what alot of people, apparently, want is no involvement in the political process whatsoever. But that is where the buck stops. Posted by: cengel at May 13, 2005 03:26 PMI have a suggestion for something practical that we can do, without waiting for the Conservative Moses. Some years back some bright bulb invented the "Tax Pledge," which, since that time has been thrust in the faces of every presidential candidate in NH. It has been an amazingly effective device. I suggest we draft a "Moderation Pledge" and thrust it just as rudely in the faces of candidates for House and Senate. 1) I reject party loyalty as a basis for deciding how to vote. Something like that, anyway. Would it overnight transform the House and Senate? Of course not. But in tight races a refusal to sign the pledge could hurt a candidate. Agreeing to sign might help. Even when there would be no advantage to signaling a willingness to compromise, we would have managed to clearly label a politician as "partisan." I think this kind of thing cold be as effective as the "Tax Pledge." Americans believe in getting things done, and they claim to disdain partisanship.
I knew you weren't, Marc, but wanted to poke you on generalizations. Shulda added a smiley, I shoulda. I actually echo your sentiment, but I also know how utterly irrelevant the KS state BoE is. We're a home rule state, and the school districts are independent and autonomous. The state BoE's decision won't affect the teaching of science in the state in the least. They don't even control textbook recommendations. It's mainly being attempted here because the ID people's home offices are in Shawnee Mission (previous home grounds of Thomas Frank, snuggled up against the Missouri border). Had you watched any of the so-called "hearings," you'd have choked laughing. Not a single one of the "expert" witnesses had degrees in the relevant fields, or had even actually read the current or proposed "standards" they were "testifying" about. But I do have to wonder why Kansas gets so much attention, when Ohio went through the same thing two years ago and the national press pretty much ignored it. Now Ohio state science "standards" permit teaching ID. And in Ohio, the state BoE actually means something. In Michigan and Pennsylvania, creationists are suing the schools to allow the teaching of creationism and/or "ID" in science classrooms. In numerous other states, where the state BoE's actually have some weight, the ID people are flexing their muscle. But hey, let's single out Kansas, where the debate means little or nothing..... Posted by: Tully at May 13, 2005 04:43 PMTully, I only mentioned Kansas because it was the most recent example. I know it's happening all over. I don't have a problem with teaching intelligent designe--IN CHURCH. Aargh, it's so depressing. I'm heading out to the ballgame now--doesn't baseball prove intelligent design? Posted by: MWS at May 13, 2005 05:25 PMNo, Tully, we're not "stupid and ignorant", (at least you're not ;-) though sometimes we have folks like this landlady doing their level best to prove to the world that we are; http://www.ljworld.com/section/citynews/story/204531 I love the part where she says she was so shocked by unmarried couples living in her apartments that she would drive around her complex, pretending her building was Jericho. Uh, didn't the Israelites march seven times aound Jericho, blowing their horns until the walls fell? I don't recall the Bible saying anything about them driving around it in their chariots, certainly not in their Suburus. And did she really want her own building to collapse? If she did, no wonder she has so many compatriots on the national stage. MWS, wrote, "I hope to God that Olympia Snowe represents a significant element of the Republican Party". I believe that she does - but the problem is the near-monopoly on media covreage of the, uh, shall we say immoderates. The key is in galvanizing and mobilizing those who want to move the party back to the center, in dispelling the notion that everyone else is happy with where the party is going. I also really liked William Swann's comments about at May 13, 2005 01:49 PM ("dedication, a careful approach to policy, professionalism, civility, respect. She also has the substance -- leaning to the left on social policy, but to the right on fiscal and foreign policy") ~Simon Incidentally, regarding William's latter point about abortion, I have to say that I'm not cmofortable with the frequently-cited idea that "moderate Republican" and "pro choice Republican" are interchangable synonyms. Certainly I'm backing for the nomination a Senator who is self-proclaimed as pro-choice, but I'm a pro life moderate, and I see no contradiction there. Posted by: Simon at May 13, 2005 11:16 PMI went to watch baseball myself, last night, Marc. The game started an hour late because of rain, but we won 11-2 and it was over at about the usual time. Sounds to me like that landlady was pulling the "God told me to" defense. If she hadn't rented to several white unmarried couples the same year, she might have managed it. But last I looked "God told me to be a bigot" isn't an affirmative defense to charges of racial discrimination. Ice stories: Once a long time ago, a man decided to carry on a family tradition. Like his father before him, and his father's father before that, he was determined to walk on water for his 21st birthday. And when the day came, he dutifully rowed out to the middle of the lake, stepped over the side, and sank. He managed to swim to shore, and went to his grandmother. "Grandmother, why is it that I cannot do what my father and his father did so easily?" he asked. "Because they were born in January, you yutz, and you were born in July" she replied. Posted by: Tully at May 14, 2005 02:52 PMLOL, Tully! Posted by: Blue Jean at May 14, 2005 04:23 PMYes, the landlady's problem was that she neither read her Bible nor her building code very well. Agreem William Swann and Michael Reynolds. Gerrymandering impacted greatly. Some districts have been handed over due each party and its vested interest. If you need any more proof that the ID folks are all wet, click here. Did that go through? If not, here's the URL; Next, we're gonna show that pi is really equal to 3.2, and that the other ratio is only a theory.... Posted by: Tully at May 15, 2005 07:16 PMYes, I'm sure the Chinese will be quite happy to see American schoolkids taught that one. It will make the science, math and engineering fields so much easier to dominate. I don't agree with Alex on either point. I don't accept that a third party is ever the way to go; the last time a third party even came close to getting into power was the Progressives, and the policy meat was then picked clean off its bones by the main parties. I grew up in England, and when you look at the history of English politics in the 20th century, what you see is a three party system which has always inherently favored the Tory party. Politics is an obstinately bipolar business; there will never be a party that draws equally from both right and left, it will always tend to gravitate towards left of right, and thus create an electoral environment favoring the party at the opposite pole. As far as proportional representation is concerned, it has almost never led to effective, stable government. The poster child for this is Italy, which has rarely enjoyed more than a year of actual, stable government. Of course, the genius of America's political system is that it favors systemtic stability while also frustrating "efficient government". the system that the Founding Fathers came up with seems to have worked pretty well for us for a little over two centuries, and I really don't see any benefit in tearing it up now for a system which is unproven in this country and has been of only dubious benefit to other nations. Posted by: Simon at May 16, 2005 12:37 AMPolitics is an obstinately bipolar business That's such a perfectly true sentence that it doesn't matter if I take it a wee bit out of context. Posted by: Tully at May 16, 2005 01:38 AM |
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