Centerfield

I clicked through to the link. Here's what I have a problem with...so far, from what I've read, there's not a whole lot of specific substance (like concrete instances, verifiable allegations) to the stated reasons why Kerry is viewed as unfit by these people.

Most of the opposition seems to hinge on vague references to self-aggrandizing behavior or general mischaracterizations of serving troops. It seems to me like this is lining up as a Bush admin related effort to discredit Kerry's service, but without any specifics, like he falsely accused some particular person of being a war criminal or lied about an injury to get a medal.

Instead, it seems to be more a case of military types who have longstanding resentment to Kerry's vietnam war opposition after he served, that it was disloyal and makes him unfit. They are definitely entitled to fell that way, and may have an arguable point. But if that is all there is to it, I dont think it changes anyone's vote or makes up the minds of anyone who is undecided.

I am voting for Bush... That been said, I think this is disgusting and Mr. O'neil should shut the hell up.

First of all, Kerry's service in the military ,while honorable, does not make him qualified or unqualified to be Commander in Chief. Whether he was a good or bad soldier should not and does not reflect on his ablility 40 years later to run an entire country.

Second of all, this is clearly politically motivated. These men do not know John Kerry and have not had a conversation with him probably since they served together in the military. I don't think that they are qualified more or less than any other American to determine whether the Senator should be President.

Third of all, John Kerry's protest of the Vietnam War, in my opinion, makes him more qualified to be President, not less. That was the most irresponsible, half-assed, military occupation in the history of the United States. Thousands died because a corrupt government went to war for the wrong reasons and never fully committed to winning. Who better than to critique the war than those men who bravely commited their life to it?

My biggest fear is that a Republican operative as high as Karl Rove is behind this. I hope not. I hope that this is a case of one man going alone. I hope that those running my party would have more respect for our political process.

This kind of crap is the reason that nobody wants to vote anymore. I am not voting for him, but John Kerry and everyone else who serves in uniform is a hero, and anybody who would say otherwise simply needs to re-evaluatue their motivations.

What is truly sad, Todd, is that this will probably have an effect.

I don't think it will have too much impact on the race, and will probably reinforce a person's views more than change them.

It's not surprising to me that some people who served with Kerry in the military are not to happy with him. The fact that he turned anti-war and told congress that they were committing war crimes couldn't have been endearing to many of the people he served with. I'm not debating the merits of his actions; I'm just saying at a personal level there were probably some who felt betrayed.

It doesn't make me any more or less likely to vote for Sen. Kerry. For my late father who supported the Vietnam War and despised the anti-war protesters it probably would have made a difference, but then again, not many people who knew my dad would have thought of him as a swing voter in the first place.

What drives these veterans is Kerry's very public allegations of widespread horrific war crimes, the so-called "Winter Soldier" affair. Yeah, politics certanly plays a role, but you don't get that many vets lined up in a cause without more than just partisan politics.

Kerry and O'Neill engaged in a nationally televised debate in 1971 on The Dick Cavett Show over Kerry's allegations that many Vietnam soldiers had routinely engaged in atrocities such as raping and cutting off ears and heads of Vietnamese soldiers and citizens.

“Winter Soldier” was a 1971 event funded by Jane Fonda in which 150 men purporting to be Vietnam combat veterans told John Kerry in Detroit about atrocities they had committed or witnessed in Vietnam. That formed the basis of much of Kerry’s April 1971 testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. The transcript of “Winter Soldier” was put into the Congressional Record, and an investigation was ordered and conducted by the US Navy and the US Army. Most of the grisly testimony was found to come from fake witnesses using the identity of real Vietnam veterans, some came from Vietnam veterans who had in fact never been in combat, and other witnesses refused to answer any questions despite commitments of immunity. Not a single atrocity alleged in Winter Soldier was ever uncovered or verified by military investigators or by independent efforts of many journalists looking for a story. Winter Soldier produced not one single verifiable incidence of a war crime.

THAT is what these veterans are pissed off about.

Can't say as I blame them, and I find their reasons quite specific and substantive. It is not Kerry's general opposition to the war that enrages them, it's the fact that he unfairly smeared them as war criminals before the nation as a group, with allegations of routine gruesome barbarity, to promote his own political career. And that he has never repudiated or apologized for those allegations, despite a lack of any verifiable evidence and a massive amount of demonstrable falsehood.

"We have 19 of 23 officers who served with [Kerry]. We have every commanding officer he ever had in Vietnam. They all signed a letter that says he is unfit to be commander-in-chief."

With numbers like that to use against him in the campaign, I don't think Vietnam works to Kerry's benefit, despite his service record.

Tully, thanks for the missing details. Looks like Kerry was far too willing to be duped.

I think it's a telling fact that while these guys claim to have all of Kerry's commanders on board with this thing... apparently all the guys who actually served on the boats with Kerry back him 100%. And most of them are life-long Republicans. Now... who are you gonna believe about Kerry's ability to command - his supervisors or the guys he commanded and whose undying loyalty he has clearly earned?

I think judging his fitness for the presidency on this basis is problemmatic.

It may be true that he did some things that would be disqualifying for a lot of patriotic Americans, if widely known.

On the other hand, he's running against someone who had is own self-described period of irresponsibility during that very period.

Bush missed his flight physical and got himself grounded ... making himself unable to fulfill his duties to his country. Has he apologized for that?

And most of them are life-long Republicans.

And you would know this how, Kevin? It's certainly not apparent from any of the articles, nor from the Swift Boat Veterans web site. From the original article:

B. G. Burkett, author of the book Stolen Valor and a military researcher, believes that Tuesday's event will not be dismissed easily by Kerry's campaign as a "partisan" attack. "There are probably just as many Democrats amongst sailors who sailed swift boats as there are Republicans. What Kerry fails to realize is this has nothing to do with politics -- this has to with Vietnam Veterans who served, who have a beef with John Kerry's service, both during and after the war," Burkett told CNSNews.com.

The concensus among the Vietnam vets I know tends to support that view.

The special forces guy Kerry pulled from the river (Bronze Star event) lives here in Oregon and I read a piece in the Oregonian about him, as well as bits on the evening news when he first started stumping for Kerry. He said that he had been a GOPer his whole life and only switched when Kerry decided to run for Prez. Not only was he special forces in 'Nam, he went into law enforcement when he got out and apparently retired from the Sherrif's Dept in the Southern Oregon county that he still lives in.

As for the others, I read a piece quoting the guy who did that recent biography of Kerry's service in 'Nam. He said that he interviewed all of Kerry's boatmates and that most of them were GOPers and had been all along. It's really this second source that I was referring to. The story was syndicated by NYT but by their news service and I've been unable to find an online source for it. I think I still have the full-page piece from the Oregonian which quotes him, though.

Those little boats only hold a few guys anyway. I think most of the vets who were stumping for Kerry early on in the primary just about had to be at least the majority of his boatmates. He only captained two of those swift boats.

Thanks for the clarification, Kevin. I had misinterpreted your remark to refer to the Swift Boat crowd signing that letter, and on review I see that wasn't what you said.

I'd be interested in seeing the Kerry crew members interviewed. Almost all we hear about Kerry's Swift Boat service comes from Kerry, hardly an unbiased source.

But that his crew liked him wouldn't change what he did when he got home, in the Winter Soldier hearings. Which, as I pointed out, is what the Swift Boat guys (and one hell of a lot of toehr Vietnam veterans) are still irate about after all these years.

Tully,

From the paragraph that you quote from them it sure seems to me that they're basing their assessment of Kerry's fitness to be Prez on their service with him in "Nam. All I'm saying is that his actual boatmates can better speak to his ability to command under pressure because they were there with him. The medals he won certainly serve to back up their assessment of him.

Kevin,

They're also basing it on his accusations that Swift boat crews committed atrocities on a daily, run-of-the-mill basis, with the full knowledge and approval (or at least quiet consent) of their upper echelons. And that's in Kerry's own views, as spoken by Kerry, not just the Winter Soldier stuff, which unjustly smeared absolutely everyone who served in combat in Vietnam.

Medals--not going there. Just simply am not going there! Know too many Vietnam combat veterans. Most with more medals than Kerry.

Kerry has film of the atrocities that he was talking about. Most of them involved burning villages and shooting civilians. The film was showed on the Dick Cavett show while Kerry was a guest.

Kerry smeared noone. He spoke out against a war that was mishandled and where the United States acted badly. If people take that as a "smear"...then frankly they deserve to be uncomfortable about it.

There is no way I'd vote for a guy that should have gone to prison as a serial killer. He claimed to have comminted these "atrocities" himself. If he did so then should have gone to prison as well as others. So either he's lying or he dodged prison. Either way he won't get my vote! Jeffrey D. did less than Kerry.

My name is Brad O'Neill, and John O'Neill is my dad. I go to school at UT and I'm not really that involved in politics. Just for the fun of it, I searched for my dad's name on the internet and this came up. To all of the people who wrote that this is just a "Bush conspiracy" to discredit John Kerry, I can guarantee you that is definitely not true.
The reason my dad is speaking out against John Kerry is because he believes it is the right thing to do. It's been a lot of work, especially because he gave my mom a kidney only two months ago. However, he (and many of the other people who served with him in Vietnam) didn't feel they could sit aside and let Kerry use his b.s. "war hero" image as the centerpiece of his campaign.
I've listened to my dad and many of his friends talk about Kerry, and the thing that is funny is that all of them said is that they would be thrilled if any other person they knew from Vietnam would have run for president. Regardless of political views.
If you have the time, go to www.swiftvets.com. You'll find the names of 250 "swiftees" who have all united to speak out against John Kerry. The ironic thing about the media is that all Kerry has to do is produce 3 and people think that it evens out. I assure you that this isn't a GOP scandal against Kerry, and the people who signed have a wide range of backgrounds and political beliefs.
To the Bush-guy who thinks my dad should "shut the hell up". I know you might have good intentions, but your pretty much 100% wrong on: Kerry's war service, Karl Rove being behind my dad speaking, etc. If you disagree with Vietnam, that's fine because lots of people do. However, Kerry's behavior in Vietnam really say a lot about him. What Kerry did was lie about "war crimes". He couldn't back any of them up when my dad asked them about them on Dick Cavett. That's because he's a liar, and my everyone knew it. One difference between my dad and Kerry is that my dad doesn't lie, and really hates people that do. I promise what he is saying is the truth, and I hope you give what he's got to say another shot.

Sincerely,
Brad O'Neill

p.s. sorry if I wrote too much, or if the grammar's bad. I didn't have time to proofread.
One more thing: KERRY WAS ONLY THERE FOR ABOUT 90 DAYS.

As a former Winter Soldier & as one who's still active in fighting for Veterans Health Issues 35 years later (Winter Soldier is more than just a name)I'm disappointed in these "johnny-come-lately's" all of a sudden shatting all over a man who's been fighting for Veterans his whole life. We who saw the truth over there have an obligation to speak out, now more than ever!And my God, George Bush hides out in the Nat'l Guard while Dick Cheney gets a student deferment? They're destroying the Veterans Administration piecemeal, has'nt anyone been to a VA Hospital lately besides me? Joe DeForest/former paratrooper/ 27 months in Vietnam w/ the 173rd Airborne Brigade (& yes, another Veteran for Kerry, God Bless him!) (now member of Quaker Church)

Just curious? What citations did John O'neil receive during vietnam. Did he get any Purple Hearts? Was he recognized for any heroic deeds? I know about the bronze star.

Mike

O'Neill never served with Kerry. Neither did any of the swiftboat vets you see in this new ad. That doctor was not Kerry's doctor.

Kerry has released all his records on his site. I'm not a Kerry fan but he's telling the truth.

10 of the 11 people from kerry's swiftboat are campaigning with him. The 11th is dead. Nothing the se people say is going to change that, no matter how much they'd like to or succeed in confusing the public.

To Brad O'Neill, Your father was one of Nixon's handpicked "dirty tricks" men. My dad served in Vietnam, and he's backing Kerry 100%. He says everyone who was there and saw the war in person KNOWS they should have come home and spoken out against the government's handling of the war like Kerry did. He admires Kerry for doing what was right by serving his country in more than one way. To be charitable to your father, he may still be dealing with his own guilt for not coming home and speaking out; my father really regrets that he, like most of his colleagues, kept his mouth shut. More realistically, I think your father learned from the masters of polticial viciousness. You're very young, apparently, but I was around during both Vietnam and Watergate--the people your dad chose to associate with were criminals, literal criminals. Do an internet search of Charles Colson and Richard Nixon in connection with your father's name. You'll learn a lot!! (Oh, and do you think your father would tell John McCain to shut up? Because that's essentially what McCain's telling him--he calls him dishonest and dishonorable).

Brad,

You can't educate everyone. Anyone who knows your dad knows that he is noones pawn and never has been. What John thinks is what he says. He is not clever or diplomatic or calculating in his speech or the positions that he adopts. Honor and integrity are more than just words to him. We've been friends for many years even though he knows full well that in 1970 I was marching through the streets of DC opposing the war. He doesnt begrudge me that position nor does he begrudge Senator Kerry's position on the war. Your dad has talked to me about the contract that exists between officers and enlisted men and the duties that they owe to each other. I think that he finds that Senator Kerry has violated that duty and that climbing on the backs and slandering his comrades for personal gain speaks volumes about his character. For what its worth, I've known your dad some 25 or so years and its just in the last week of reading the net that I learned about his two bronze stars with v's for valor.

Brad: Steve is right; you can't educate everyone. Being against the war, or protesting against something your government has done is fine, and even respectable, provided that certain lines are not crossed. While I respect Mr. Kerry's service during the time he was on the Swift Boats, much of what he did there seems to have been cynical and self-aggrandizing. I don't understand that mentality. Mr. Kerry's actions after his return certainly do not qualify as service to his country, in my opinion. I know I wouldn't want my name and picture displayed in the museum dedicated to the war "victory" in communist Viet Nam.
I heard your father interviewed on the radio today (KSFO 560 San Francisco). I found him to be sincere,humble, honorable, and believable. Just as those (relatively few) vets who support Sen. Kerry have a right to be heard, so do your father and the (relatively many) "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth". Efforts to silence either are truly un-American. People can draw their own conclusions.
You hang in there.
Kent

READING PARTS OF UNFIT FOR COMMAND, I FELT WE HAVE ANOTHER LYING CHEATING PROSPECT FOR PRESIDENT AGAIN. WHEN KERRY HAD TO APPLY FOR HIS OWN PURPLE HEARTS TELLS YOU LOADS ABOUT HIM. HE IS ALREADY USING CLINTONS PROGRAM OF ATTACK THE MESSENGER NOT THE MESSAGE. JOHN O'NEILL IS A HERO. WE THANK HIM AND HIS GROUP FOR STEPPING FORWARD WITH THERE REPORT ON KERRY'S LIES FOR ALL TO SEE. EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT THIS BOOK. THE NEWS PROGRAMS ARE DIVIDED BY PARTY LINES. CHRIS MATHEWS DEMOCRATS, BIGGEST PROGRAM WOULD NOT LET O'NEILL TALK OF COURSE. THE CHRISTMAS STORY SEERED-SEERED IN KERRY'S MIND IS THE BEST PART OF THE WHOLE MESS. WOW WHAT A LOAD OF B.S. THE DEMOCRATS SHOULD CHANGE HORSES AND GET SOMEONE ELSE. LET KERRY AND HIS CATSUP MADE IN MEXICO FADE INTO THE DUST. JON NELSON

John Kerry cofounded the Vietnam Veterans of America - The Org currently has 50,000 Vietnam Veterans - Helping Veterans all these years with issues such as Agent Orange. Kerry has many years helping VN veterans - He doesnt advertise that -
What has Bush done for VN Veterans since he was in the National Guard?

[ A note to my friends and readers of this message: “Hanoi Jane” Fonda apologized for her anti-American Vietnam war-era activities; I have long since forgiven her.]

Kerry, on the other hand, has tried to suppress the publication of his book about his anti-war capers, as well as excerpts from it. I have read portions of it, and found much of it to seem preposterous on its face, though, since I have a life and a real job, I haven’t taken time to vet it. Nor have I vetted the assertions of the article by Mr. Bendell. Mr. Kerry has not, to my knowledge, apologized for his anti-military activities, but has made his self-proclaimed heroism a centerpiece of his campaign.

Therefore, he can hardly protest when his political opponents and interested truth-seekers examine his behavior, both during and after his shortened tour in Vietnam.

For discussion, I’ll stipulate that he’s the greatest American warrior since John Paul Jones, David Farragut, George Patton, Chesty Puller, and Audie Murphy. I have examined his congressional voting record, and note that both the Heritage Foundation (right) and Common Cause (left) agree that he has the farthest-left voting record in either house of Congress for the past 16+ years, and that includes Ted Kennedy!

This election is too important to be left to polemicists of any political party. It is also, in my opinion, the most crucial in our lifetime. We have been heavily infiltrated with terrorists who wish to destroy us, and we are reviled by millions abroad who hate us, not just for what we do, but for who we are, and that we still exist.

Radical Islam’s hatred of us is visceral, vicious, and non-negotiable; please think carefully about who is more likely to strike fear into the hearts of our implacable enemies, who have long ago lost any desire to coexist with us. They simply want to wipe us and our seed from the face of the earth.

Ask yourself which presidential candidate would be preferred by Al Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, or the rest of the loony but very dangerous Muslim fringe. Ask yourself which candidate these cutthroats would expect to obtain greater concessions from, who would more likely “read them their rights”, and who would more likely accommodate them while they continue to attack us.

I ask you to forget for a moment the candidates’ annoying habits, hairstyles, accents, and locution skills. Instead, ask yourself: Which one would more likely appease those in Canada and Europe who are jealous of our power, our determination, and who are increasingly fearful of their own Muslim populations?

Which one would more likely act in our interests, not just those of Russia, Germany, France, or an increasingly corrupt U.N.? Under the presidency of which candidate are we more likely to survive as the world’s best beacon of hope, and its last bastion of freedom?

May God guide you in your deliberations.

[Disclosure: Since graduating from Annapolis, I served four months in North Vietnamese waters in seaborne Search and Rescue, and as chief pilot and gunnery officer of a vessel of the Mobile Riverine Force, Task Group 117.1 (one year). While my comrades and I earned numerous citations and commendations, and I was decorated for performance under fire, I do not assert heroism by any measure. The term “hero” has been cheapened in recent years, and I will not besmirch it by frivolously assuming its mantle].

Michael Omohundro, Denver, Colorado August 2004

[ A note to my friends and readers of this message: “Hanoi Jane” Fonda apologized for her anti-American Vietnam war-era activities; I have long since forgiven her.]

Kerry, on the other hand, has tried to suppress the publication of his book about his anti-war capers, as well as excerpts from it. I have read portions of it, and found much of it to seem preposterous on its face, though, since I have a life and a real job, I haven’t taken time to vet it. Nor have I vetted the assertions of the article by Mr. Bendell. Mr. Kerry has not, to my knowledge, apologized for his anti-military activities, but has made his self-proclaimed heroism a centerpiece of his campaign.

Therefore, he can hardly protest when his political opponents and interested truth-seekers examine his behavior, both during and after his shortened tour in Vietnam.

For discussion, I’ll stipulate that he’s the greatest American warrior since John Paul Jones, David Farragut, George Patton, Chesty Puller, and Audie Murphy. I have examined his congressional voting record, and note that both the Heritage Foundation (right) and Common Cause (left) agree that he has the farthest-left voting record in either house of Congress for the past 16+ years, and that includes Ted Kennedy!

This election is too important to be left to polemicists of any political party. It is also, in my opinion, the most crucial in our lifetime. We have been heavily infiltrated with terrorists who wish to destroy us, and we are reviled by millions abroad who hate us, not just for what we do, but for who we are, and that we still exist.

Radical Islam’s hatred of us is visceral, vicious, and non-negotiable; please think carefully about who is more likely to strike fear into the hearts of our implacable enemies, who have long ago lost any desire to coexist with us. They simply want to wipe us and our seed from the face of the earth.

Ask yourself which presidential candidate would be preferred by Al Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, or the rest of the loony but very dangerous Muslim fringe. Ask yourself which candidate these cutthroats would expect to obtain greater concessions from, who would more likely “read them their rights”, and who would more likely accommodate them while they continue to attack us.

I ask you to forget for a moment the candidates’ annoying habits, hairstyles, accents, and locution skills. Instead, ask yourself: Which one would more likely appease those in Canada and Europe who are jealous of our power, our determination, and who are increasingly fearful of their own Muslim populations?

Which one would more likely act in our interests, not just those of Russia, Germany, France, or an increasingly corrupt U.N.? Under the presidency of which candidate are we more likely to survive as the world’s best beacon of hope, and its last bastion of freedom?

May God guide you in your deliberations.

[Disclosure: Since graduating from Annapolis, I served four months in North Vietnamese waters in seaborne Search and Rescue, and as chief pilot and gunnery officer of a vessel of the Mobile Riverine Force, Task Group 117.1 (one year). While my comrades and I earned numerous citations and commendations, and I was decorated for performance under fire, I do not assert heroism by any measure. The term “hero” has been cheapened in recent years, and I will not besmirch it by frivolously assuming its mantle].

Michael Omohundro, Denver, Colorado August 2004

[ A note to my friends and readers of this message: “Hanoi Jane” Fonda apologized for her anti-American Vietnam war-era activities; I have long since forgiven her.]

Kerry, on the other hand, has tried to suppress the publication of his book about his anti-war capers, as well as excerpts from it. I have read portions of it, and found much of it to seem preposterous on its face, though, since I have a life and a real job, I haven’t taken time to vet it. Nor have I vetted the assertions of the article by Mr. Bendell. Mr. Kerry has not, to my knowledge, apologized for his anti-military activities, but has made his self-proclaimed heroism a centerpiece of his campaign.

Therefore, he can hardly protest when his political opponents and interested truth-seekers examine his behavior, both during and after his shortened tour in Vietnam.

For discussion, I’ll stipulate that he’s the greatest American warrior since John Paul Jones, David Farragut, George Patton, Chesty Puller, and Audie Murphy. I have examined his congressional voting record, and note that both the Heritage Foundation (right) and Common Cause (left) agree that he has the farthest-left voting record in either house of Congress for the past 16+ years, and that includes Ted Kennedy!

This election is too important to be left to polemicists of any political party. It is also, in my opinion, the most crucial in our lifetime. We have been heavily infiltrated with terrorists who wish to destroy us, and we are reviled by millions abroad who hate us, not just for what we do, but for who we are, and that we still exist.

Radical Islam’s hatred of us is visceral, vicious, and non-negotiable; please think carefully about who is more likely to strike fear into the hearts of our implacable enemies, who have long ago lost any desire to coexist with us. They simply want to wipe us and our seed from the face of the earth.

Ask yourself which presidential candidate would be preferred by Al Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, or the rest of the loony but very dangerous Muslim fringe. Ask yourself which candidate these cutthroats would expect to obtain greater concessions from, who would more likely “read them their rights”, and who would more likely accommodate them while they continue to attack us.

I ask you to forget for a moment the candidates’ annoying habits, hairstyles, accents, and locution skills. Instead, ask yourself: Which one would more likely appease those in Canada and Europe who are jealous of our power, our determination, and who are increasingly fearful of their own Muslim populations?

Which one would more likely act in our interests, not just those of Russia, Germany, France, or an increasingly corrupt U.N.? Under the presidency of which candidate are we more likely to survive as the world’s best beacon of hope, and its last bastion of freedom?

May God guide you in your deliberations.

[Disclosure: Since graduating from Annapolis, I served four months in North Vietnamese waters in seaborne Search and Rescue, and as chief pilot and gunnery officer of a vessel of the Mobile Riverine Force, Task Group 117.1 (one year). While my comrades and I earned numerous citations and commendations, and I was decorated for performance under fire, I do not assert heroism by any measure. The term “hero” has been cheapened in recent years, and I will not besmirch it by frivolously assuming its mantle].

Michael Omohundro, Denver, Colorado August 2004

i hate john kerry